Richie Allen and Dave Parker.

Peter_Spaeth · #1 12-17-2024, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jchcollins

In my mind, Garvey’s mistake was all that BS with his personal life that caused his support on the writer’s ballot essentially to implode back in the 90’s and 00’s for a while when he was fresher in everyone’s collective memories. Once he moved on to the various iterations of the VC and “era” committees, sabermetrics had become a thing, and his shortcomings in certain career stats to me at least anyway seemed a lot more obvious.

For starters before you even get to that, he’s a 1B with less than 300 career HR. Most typical HOF 1B have power figures way beyond that. Only 38 career WAR and a .329 OBP don’t help him much either.

If it were up to me, I’d put him in; I’m for a (slightly anyway) “larger” Hall. Garvey certainly has the hardware accolades (An MVP, 10x AS, 4 GG, an AS MVP, an LCS MVP…) and there is at least a decent argument that he was the best 1B in the majors in the 1970’s. The problem though is now it’s been so long that he is getting that reputation as “best player not in the HOF” - which ironically before him seemed to be a distinction held forever by Gil Hodges. I don’t know if he overcomes that or not. It would seem to make sense that he would eventually, but who knows. Not starting until age 27 obviously hurt Bob Johnson, and probably doom him forever to hall of very good.

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I think maybe Garvey initially suffered because of his personal baggage and now it's pretty easy to make the No case based on advanced metrics. But there's no denying that in the day, the consensus was that he was an elite player, and there is certainly support for that perception, including 6 straight 200 hit seasons.

Peter_Spaeth · #2 12-17-2024, 11:10 AM

Not starting until age 27 obviously hurt Bob Johnson a lot.

btcarfagno · #3 12-17-2024, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Not starting until age 27 obviously hurt Bob Johnson a lot.

His minor league numbers were not all that good at ages 23 or 24. By age 25 and 26 he was tearing up the PCL though. He also could have stayed around a bit longer. Had 5 homers and .283 batting average in PCL in just 145 at bats at age 42 three years after his last major league at bat. Hit .326 the next year in B level ball, walking more than twice as much as he struck out.

Just think he is worthy of a discussion from those who make those decisions.

darwinbulldog · #4 12-17-2024, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by btcarfagno

His minor league numbers were not all that good at ages 23 or 24. By age 25 and 26 he was tearing up the PCL though. He also could have stayed around a bit longer. Had 5 homers and .283 batting average in PCL in just 145 at bats at age 42 three years after his last major league at bat. Hit .326 the next year in B level ball, walking more than twice as much as he struck out.

Just think he is worthy of a discussion from those who make those decisions.

His stats also benefited from playing full seasons throughout the war years against notably depleted competition.

btcarfagno · #5 12-17-2024, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darwinbulldog

His stats also benefited from playing full seasons throughout the war years against notably depleted competition.

Mel Ott
Joe Medwick
Lou Boudreau
Rick Ferrell
Bobby Doerr (in military only 1945)
Ernie Lombardi
Hal Newhouser

Wasn't a problem for them.

bcbgcbrcb · #6 12-18-2024, 02:13 AM

Most of Bob Johnson’s highest ranking stats that have been mentioned are primarily a result of high walk totals based on his plate appearances per season and career. Walks aren’t nearly as impressive to me as hits and extra base hits where you have the ability to drive in more runs, not just get on base to score them. Don’t really think he deserves to be in the Hall and very little support for him over the years, that’s probably why.

btcarfagno · #7 12-18-2024, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Most of Bob Johnson’s highest ranking stats that have been mentioned are primarily a result of high walk totals based on his plate appearances per season and career. Walks aren’t nearly as impressive to me as hits and extra base hits where you have the ability to drive in more runs, not just get on base to score them. Don’t really think he deserves to be in the Hall and very little support for him over the years, that’s probably why.

He drove in 100 runs or more seven years in a row. I think he did just fine with the extra base hits and driving in the runs.

He averaged 60 extra base hits per year over his entire career.

jayshum · #8 12-18-2024, 07:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bcbgcbrcb

Most of Bob Johnson�s highest ranking stats that have been mentioned are primarily a result of high walk totals based on his plate appearances per season and career. Walks aren�t nearly as impressive to me as hits and extra base hits where you have the ability to drive in more runs, not just get on base to score them. Don�t really think he deserves to be in the Hall and very little support for him over the years, that�s probably why.

He had 1283 RBIs with only 2051 hits and had an OPS+ of 139. For his career, he hit .306 with an OPS of .931 with runners in scoring position. Seems like he did a pretty good job at driving in runs regardless of how many walks he had.

jchcollins · #9 12-17-2024, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I think maybe Garvey initially suffered because of his personal baggage and now it's pretty easy to make the No case based on advanced metrics. But there's no denying that in the day, the consensus was that he was an elite player, and there is certainly support for that perception, including 6 straight 200 hit seasons.

Exactly. I was born in �77, but even as a fairly little kid in mid-80�s, I knew who Steve Garvey was.

In fact, he was a main part of the sub-theme (baseball, and baseball cards) in the movie �Mask� with Cher and Eric Stolz. I vividly remember a �74 Topps Garvey in that movie, and of course the �55 and �56 Brooklyn Dodger cards that Rocky had up on his wall in his room. By the time I saw this movie, I was already buying Topps packs, but I�m sure it did quite a lot to aid in my burgeoning interest in vintage cards.

It�s always interesting when someone is superstar good for a period of time, but in some way falls short on their career. I hope Steve gets in one day.

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Peter_Spaeth · #10 12-17-2024, 12:54 PM

Not like he had a short peak though. He made 10 all star teams including 8 in a row, and batted over .280 12 times.

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