The second and third greatest knuckleball pitchers of all time?

[packs]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Phil Niekro pitched 5404.0 innings over 24 years to the age of 48 though and retired with a lifetime ERA of 3.35.



Hoyt Wilhelm pitched 2254.1 innings over 21 years to the age of 49 and retired with a lifetime ERA of 2,52.

What makes the comparison tough is that Wilhelm didn't break into the major leagues until the age of 29 while Niekro started at the age of 25. Moreover Niekro started in 716 games while Wilhelm started in only 52 games.

Hard to play the what if game but the one time the leash was off Hoyt and he was allowed to start and pitch as much as he wanted, he threw 226 innings and led the league in both ERA and ERA+.

He was also 36 years old at the time.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by packs

Hard to play the what if game but the one time the leash was off Hoyt and he was allowed to start and pitch as much as he wanted, he threw 226 innings and led the league in both ERA and ERA+.

He was also 36 years old at the time.

Yes indeed! In 1959 with Paul Richards managing the Orioles, Hoyt Wilhelm pitched 226 innings in 32 appearances including 27 starts and 13 complete games in those starts. He posted an ERA of only 2.19 while pitching an average of over seven innings per appearance!

[steve B]

I'm not sure how the others were teamwise, but Wakefield was very different.

Signed an auto renewing one year contract that was a decent deal for both him and the team. Only modified at his request after a bad season - he requested the yearly pay be decreased since he felt his age and abilities were not as valuable.

At least one time had good stats until a week where neither the starters of relievers were doing well. Asked to eat up innings on minimal rest so the relievers could rest even if it went badly and wrecked his stats he agreed and took a pretty bad beating for all nine innings. And just said it was what the bullpen needed so he was happy to help.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by steve B

I'm not sure how the others were teamwise, but Wakefield was very different.

Signed an auto renewing one year contract that was a decent deal for both him and the team. Only modified at his request after a bad season - he requested the yearly pay be decreased since he felt his age and abilities were not as valuable.

At least one time had good stats until a week where neither the starters of relievers were doing well. Asked to eat up innings on minimal rest so the relievers could rest even if it went badly and wrecked his stats he agreed and took a pretty bad beating for all nine innings. And just said it was what the bullpen needed so he was happy to help.

Now that's a player who merits the full respect of every true baseball fan! Tim Wakefield certainly gets mine.

Wakefield's best year may have been in 1995 which was fairly early in his career. In that year he pitched 195 1/3 innings in 27 starts for the Boston Red Sox with 6 complete games. He posted an ERA of only 2.95 while pitching an average of almost 7 1/3 innings per appearance! It was in 2005 though at the age of 38 that he logged the most work pitching a total of 225 1/3 innings in 33 starts which was just over 6 2/3 innings per start with a respectable ERA of 4.15.

[Balticfox]

It's a little known fact that Warren Spahn rejuvenated his career at the age of 42 in 1963 by adding a knuckleball to his bag of tricks. Spahn went 23-7 for the Milwaukee Braves that year thus matching his career best W-L mark. He posted an ERA of only 2.60 in 33 starts with 22 complete games! The 259 2/3 innings he pitched work out to an average of nearly 8 per game.

Here are scans of my two Warren Spahn cards:





I also have his 1963 Salada Baseball Coin and his 1964 Topps Baseball Coins.

[Balticfox]

Sadly R.A. Dickey isn't getting any love in this thread. But he's the only knuckleballer to have won the Cy Young Award when he went 20-6 with an E.R.A. of 2.73 for the New York Mets in 2012. He pitched 233 2/3 innings that year in 33 starts with 5 complete games and one other appearance where he closed out the game which means he pitched about 7 innings per start.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Sadly R.A. Dickey isn't getting any love in this thread. But he's the only knuckleballer to have won the Cy Young Award when he went 20-6 with an E.R.A. of 2.73 for the New York Mets in 2012. He pitched 233 2/3 innings that year in 33 starts with 5 complete games and one other appearance where he closed out the game which means he pitched about 7 innings per start.

Kershaw was robbed