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[gregndodgers]

My wife and I stayed up late last night talking about all the LA fires. I told her that my gut says incompetence is partly to blame for the quick spread of the two biggest fires, Palisades and Eaton. I saw the Eaton fire firsthand on Wednesday morning, and there were no firefighters trying to save homes in the southern portion of Altadena. I saw dozens of homes burning in a span of 20 minutes, and there was not one firetruck present in the area I was in. Apparently, there were not enough firefighters available. In my opinion, that is not a sufficient excuse. Not having enough firefighters is a sign of incompetence in my opinion. When I saw the fire up close, we were already 12 hours into the Eaton fire, yet the fire was still burning out of control.

Remember, we all know that brush fires can get big fast. Heck, my family and I had to be evacuated in 2018 due to the Woolsey fire! And in that 2018 fire, the fire burned uncontrolled all the way to the sea. If not for the sea, how far would that fire have burned?

When did it become acceptable for fires to burn out of control and destroy thousands of homes?

The other big problem is that there was not enough water to fight the two largest fires. The fire-hydrants went dry not long after the fires started.

So it appears that California's leadership was not prepared for these very large fires that grew quickly due to very fast winds. The winds were part of the problem but poor planning and slow response were also to blame in my opinion.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by gregndodgers

My wife and I stayed up late last night talking about all the LA fires. I told her that my gut says incompetence is partly to blame for the quick spread of the two biggest fires, Palisades and Eaton. I saw the Eaton fire firsthand on Wednesday morning, and there were no firefighters trying to save homes in the southern portion of Altadena. I saw dozens of homes burning in a span of 20 minutes, and there was not one firetruck present in the area I was in. Apparently, there were not enough firefighters available. In my opinion, that is not a sufficient excuse. Not having enough firefighters is a sign of incompetence in my opinion. When I saw the fire up close, we were already 12 hours into the Eaton fire, yet the fire was still burning out of control.

Remember, we all know that brush fires can get big fast. Heck, my family and I had to be evacuated in 2018 due to the Woolsey fire! And in that 2018 fire, the fire burned uncontrolled all the way to the sea. If not for the sea, how far would that fire have burned?

When did it become acceptable for fires to burn out of control and destroy thousands of homes?

The other big problem is that there was not enough water to fight the two largest fires. The fire-hydrants went dry not long after the fires started.

So it appears that California's leadership was not prepared for these very large fires that grew quickly due to very fast winds. The winds were part of the problem but poor planning and slow response were also to blame in my opinion.

Or it could be that this fire was 4x bigger than anything anyone had ever seen and no amount of fire fighters would be sufficient to make a dent in a firestorm that big. Also if you don't have the ability to fight a firestorm from the air no amount of water from a hydrant will be enough. They aren't designed to fight firestorms. They are designed to fight a single house fire or 2. These same people pointing fingers and spreading disinformation (not referring to you Greg) would be the same people complaining about fire fighters' salaries, overtime and pensions. Let's all take a beat and show some real empathy for those that are suffering before playing the blame game. Unfortunately this selfish behavior is normalized from the top as we don't have a leader that's magnanimous enough to comprehend putting others before themselves.

[jingram058]

"The leadership wasn't prepared..."

I'd like to know, given a colossal population who are determined to live there, how the leadership could have been.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I am not from LA, prior to this once in a lifetime perfect storm of an event, was anyone protesting that there were not enough firefighters to battle a potential disaster, or is this hindsight?

[gregndodgers]

People seem to forget or are not aware that such large fires are not unprecedented in California. Just a few years ago (2018) the Camp fire destroyed 153,336 acres, caused 85 fatalities, displaced more than 50,000 people, and destroyed more than 18,000 structures, causing an estimated $16.5 billion in damage. At the same time that the Camp fire was killing thousands, the Woolsey fire mowed down over 100,000 acres and destroyed over 1,500 homes.

So very large, simultaneous brush fires are not unprecedented in California.

If some do not want to hold leadership accountable and then accept that these large fires will destroy everything in its path and burn uncontrolled, that’s part of the problem.

I’ve been evacuated twice now (Woolsey in 2018 and now Eaton) and in both cases, the fire got to within a half mile of my two homes. I think when you are so close to the problem, the urgency for answers is much greater. Also, I am dangerously close to losing my homeowners insurance. Insurance companies are simply saying no; they won’t insure certain homes.

[egri]

Thought the excerpt from a Wall Street Journal article, written by someone who lost his home, would be of interest to the forum (emphasis mine):

Lola, my wife Silka and I packed what we could. I spent most of the next 10 minutes looking for the carrier for the cat and then the cat herself. I threw my most prized sports cards—a 1951 Bowman Willie Mays, a 1952 Topps Jackie Robinson—and my prescriptions, passport, laptop and a couple of chargers into a backpack. For some reason, I also packed a few T-shirts but no socks, underwear, pants, jackets or any other clothing.

Ten minutes to pack your life? I made bad choices: swimming ear plugs but no contact lenses. My daughter also made some questionable calls. One high heel, Lola, really? But she did grab our dog. My wife made the clutch calls, packing a few pieces of art and our most important documents: birth certificates, marriage licenses, passports. But then she forgot her jewelry.

[gregndodgers]

This is crazy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2kTrN...B0b2RheQ%3D%3D

[gregndodgers]

Originally Posted by ajjohnsonsoxfan

Or it could be that this fire was 4x bigger than anything anyone had ever seen and no amount of fire fighters would be sufficient to make a dent in a firestorm that big. Also if you don't have the ability to fight a firestorm from the air no amount of water from a hydrant will be enough. They aren't designed to fight firestorms. They are designed to fight a single house fire or 2. These same people pointing fingers and spreading disinformation (not referring to you Greg) would be the same people complaining about fire fighters' salaries, overtime and pensions. Let's all take a beat and show some real empathy for those that are suffering before playing the blame game. Unfortunately this selfish behavior is normalized from the top as we don't have a leader that's magnanimous enough to comprehend putting others before themselves.

If the hydrants had pressure, the water could have been used to save the dozens of homes I saw burning.

I served on a nuclear sub in the late 1990s. After each torpedo drill where we engaged a simulated enemy sub, we deconstructed every minute detail to determine what we did right and what we did wrong.

In the case of Eaton, the fire started around 6:30 pm on Tuesday, and the Santa Ana winds were blowing at 60 mph sustained winds. Obviously, that’s incredibly fast! But I also experienced the 2018 Woolsey fire, which raged not far from the current fires, and in that fire, the Santa Ana winds played a big role too. In Woolsey and Eaton, the fires burned uncontrolled.

So after Woolsey, what lessons were learned? The Wolsey fire burned 100,000 acres and destroyed over 1,600 structures. Also, the 2018 Camp fire destroyed 153,336 acres, caused 85 fatalities, displaced more than 50,000 people, and destroyed more than 18,000 structures. So it is incorrect to say that we had not seen a fire this big before.

Are we to accept that some fires are too large to control? That we are powerless to prevent destruction of thousands of structures? That widespread destruction, hardship, and loss of life is inevitable?

Well, I’m a submariner, a career military officer, and I will never accept those terms. We must understand what our leaders did right and what they did wrong, and I am currently under the belief, that there is a lot of blame to go around.

Should our leaders be pointing fingers and assessing blame? No, because they must focus on saving lives and homes. But we as concerned citizens should be asking questions because these fires are still raging and we must ensure our leaders know we will not accept incompetence. As the fires continue to burn and more homes are threatened, our leaders must have the requisite sense of urgency. Citizens help promote that.