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  #1  
Old 02-21-2025, 07:53 AM
Aquarian Sports Cards Aquarian Sports Cards is offline
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Bob Friend falls 3 wins short of 200, but he and Bobo are the two guys who immediately come to mind for 'good pitchers with losing records'. 107 ERA+ is better than Jim Kaat, but luck wasn't with them.




Jamie Moyer played forever and is the worst pitcher with 250 wins.

Jerry Reuss was exactly league average over 22 years, which doesn't make him bad but 22 years and league average is a very long career.

LaTroy Hawkins lasted 21 years as a subpar to mediocre reliever. He has to be up there. 106 ERA+ is pretty weak for a 1 inning relief pitcher
Thing about guys like Reuss and Moyer is that there are a number of very good years and maybe even one or two great years mixed in. It's basically the front and back ends of their careers that makes their careers look "League Average" in their prime they were both All-Stars and occasional Cy Young Candidates.
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Last edited by Aquarian Sports Cards; 02-21-2025 at 07:57 AM.
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  #2  
Old 02-21-2025, 08:07 AM
stlcardsfan stlcardsfan is offline
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Jose Deleon pitiched 13 seasons and 1,900 innings. Not quite as much as some of the others mentioned.

Went 86-119 and twice lost 19 games in a season. Respectable career ERA of 3.76 and 102 ERA+.

Went 7-19 for the Cardinals in 1990. I remember people saying "you have to be a pretty good pitcher to lose 19 games". Huh?
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  #3  
Old 02-21-2025, 09:44 AM
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Jose Deleon pitiched 13 seasons and 1,900 innings. Not quite as much as some of the others mentioned.

Went 86-119 and twice lost 19 games in a season. Respectable career ERA of 3.76 and 102 ERA+.

Went 7-19 for the Cardinals in 1990. I remember people saying "you have to be a pretty good pitcher to lose 19 games". Huh?
This quote belongs to Bill James

“It takes a pretty good pitcher to lose 20 games” — Bill James
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Old 02-23-2025, 12:04 PM
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Jose Deleon pitiched 13 seasons and 1,900 innings. Not quite as much as some of the others mentioned.

Went 86-119 and twice lost 19 games in a season. Respectable career ERA of 3.76 and 102 ERA+.

Went 7-19 for the Cardinals in 1990. I remember people saying "you have to be a pretty good pitcher to lose 19 games". Huh?
Getting no run support doesn't make you a bad pitcher.

And pitchers who lose 20 games are frequently the best pitcher on a bad team - they lose so many because they pitch so much for a team with terrible offense. Take Hall of Famer Red Ruffing - he lost 25 and 22 games for the Red Sox in 1928 and 1929 before being traded to the Yankees. Paul Derringer lost 27 and 21 games in 1933 and 1934 while being an above average pitcher - he went on to win 20 games four times.

Some twenty win losers are guys like Jack Nabors going 1-20 for the Philadelphia Athletics in 1916; but I think if you studied it, more 20 game losers would be good pitchers than bad.
Last edited by John1941; 02-23-2025 at 12:09 PM.
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Old 02-23-2025, 12:33 PM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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Getting no run support doesn't make you a bad pitcher.

And pitchers who lose 20 games are frequently the best pitcher on a bad team - they lose so many because they pitch so much for a team with terrible offense. Take Hall of Famer Red Ruffing - he lost 25 and 22 games for the Red Sox in 1928 and 1929 before being traded to the Yankees. Paul Derringer lost 27 and 21 games in 1933 and 1934 while being an above average pitcher - he went on to win 20 games four times.

Some twenty win losers are guys like Jack Nabors going 1-20 for the Philadelphia Athletics in 1916; but I think if you studied it, more 20 game losers would be good pitchers than bad.

One of my favorite hard luck seasons is when Will White won 18 games and lost 42 - but posted a 2.14 ERA, 114 ERA+. White, of course, was an excellent pitcher but bad luck and a bad offense led to one of the worst W-L seasons in MLB history. Jim McCormick had a similar season.
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  #6  
Old 02-25-2025, 08:36 PM
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Edwin Jackson, 17 years with a 4.78 ERA and an 8.9 WAR, ERA+ of 88
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Old 02-25-2025, 08:46 PM
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Edwin Jackson, 17 years with a 4.78 ERA and an 8.9 WAR, ERA+ of 88
I mentioned him earlier. He definitely deserves a mention!
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Old 02-26-2025, 11:11 AM
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Jeff Suppan was another one. He managed to pitch 17 seasons and started nearly all the games he appeared in, more than 400 games and 2,500 innings.

He compiled a losing record of 140-146 with a 4.70 ERA (!) and a career ERA+ of 97.
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Old 02-26-2025, 05:13 PM
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I mentioned him earlier. He definitely deserves a mention!
I believe Jackson is tied with Rich Hill for the most franchise changes in a career (15). Or if the 14 figure above is accurate, Hill surpassed him. Hill, anyhow, had multiple stints with multiple teams so we could be talking apples and oranges as between number of franchises and franchise changes.
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Last edited by Peter_Spaeth; 02-26-2025 at 05:15 PM.
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Old 02-26-2025, 09:20 PM
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I mentioned him earlier. He definitely deserves a mention!
During the second half of his career I was always surprised to see him show up on a new team
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Old 02-21-2025, 11:33 AM
G1911 G1911 is offline
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Thing about guys like Reuss and Moyer is that there are a number of very good years and maybe even one or two great years mixed in. It's basically the front and back ends of their careers that makes their careers look "League Average" in their prime they were both All-Stars and occasional Cy Young Candidates.
Of course, every pitcher with 2 or more seasons looks better if you use his best year/years. As to the question of the worst pitcher with abnormally long careers, these guys are top candidates. Nobody gets to 20 years without a year they were better than league or an all-star.
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