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  #1  
Old 05-13-2025, 10:18 PM
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Dunno that Jackson was better than Lajoie or Speaker who made the second class. I think his notoriety has made him perhaps greater in people's minds than his actual numbers.
Checked. His actual numbers are pretty damn good.
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Old 05-13-2025, 10:27 PM
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Checked. His actual numbers are pretty damn good.
Who said they weren't? It's still my belief his valuations which have gone off the charts reflect his notoriety as well as his player value. Had he been plain old Joe Jackson and not Shoeless Joe, and had he just sustained a career ending injury in 1920 and not been part of the Black Sox, I don't think you would see the astronomical numbers.

Bill James, for example, rates him 66 (and that's as of 2003 so would be much lower now presumably).
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Old 05-13-2025, 11:05 PM
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Who said they weren't? It's still my belief his valuations which have gone off the charts reflect his notoriety as well as his player value. Had he been plain old Joe Jackson and not Shoeless Joe, and had he just sustained a career ending injury in 1920 and not been part of the Black Sox, I don't think you would see the astronomical numbers.

Bill James, for example, rates him 66 (and that's as of 2003 so would be much lower now presumably).
I agree with this 1st paragraph. The Bill James list is just ripe for debate though.
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Old 05-13-2025, 11:16 PM
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I agree with this 1st paragraph. The Bill James list is just ripe for debate though.
Oh, no question about that.
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Old 05-14-2025, 12:05 AM
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Bill James, for example, rates him 66 (and that's as of 2003 so would be much lower now presumably).
The Sporting News rated Shoeless Joe Jackson as 35 way back in 1998.
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