REA increasing their BP and making other changes

[piecesofthegame]

I find all the discussion about BP a lot like going to your cell phone provider’s store to get a new phone or change your plan…ridiculously confusing! They are literally in the business of running rings around you with the numbers. It’s what they are paid to do.
As mentioned by many previously, they can charge whatever they want for BP, it’s not going to change what I’m willing to pay in the end. I have a figure in mind, I make my bids and and mentally add the % to my bid, and when it’s over my bid, see ya next time.

Now here’s what I DON’T understand. Why are reputable companies who sell using ebay (Probstein, 4 Corners), not viewed as a better option for a consigner than large auction houses? The major ones using eBay offer 95% of the sale price on items selling over $1000. So do the math…

$5000 card through auction house
$4000 bid + 23%=$4920.Result to consigners is $4K IF…IF they have 0% consignment fee. That’s best case scenario.

$5000 card on eBay through Probstein, 4 Corners, etc
$4920 winning bid (to keep all things equal). Result to consigner after 5% fee=$4674.
This seems like a No-Brainer for a consigner. What am I missing? I realize when we get into 5 digit, 6 digit, and 7 digit cards, no one will throw them up on eBay and hope for the best. But for the $1000-$10000 cards, I don’t understand why it’s not considered as an option by more consigners.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by piecesofthegame

I find all the discussion about BP a lot like going to your cell phone provider’s store to get a new phone or change your plan…ridiculously confusing! They are literally in the business of running rings around you with the numbers. It’s what they are paid to do.
As mentioned by many previously, they can charge whatever they want for BP, it’s not going to change what I’m willing to pay in the end. I have a figure in mind, I make my bids and and mentally add the % to my bid, and when it’s over my bid, see ya next time.

Now here’s what I DON’T understand. Why are reputable companies who sell using ebay (Probstein, 4 Corners), not viewed as a better option for a consigner than large auction houses? The major ones using eBay offer 95% of the sale price on items selling over $1000. So do the math…

$5000 card through auction house
$4000 bid + 23%=$4920.Result to consigners is $4K IF…IF they have 0% consignment fee. That’s best case scenario.

$5000 card on eBay through Probstein, 4 Corners, etc
$4920 winning bid (to keep all things equal). Result to consigner after 5% fee=$4674.
This seems like a No-Brainer for a consigner. What am I missing? I realize when we get into 5 digit, 6 digit, and 7 digit cards, no one will throw them up on eBay and hope for the best. But for the $1000-$10000 cards, I don’t understand why it’s not considered as an option by more consigners.

Doesn’t eBay charge 13%?

[piecesofthegame]

If you consign through a high volume seller like Probstein, 4 Corners, Greg Morris, etc, they get completely different rates than the average guy. Check their rates on their websites. Generally anything over $1000 will net you 95%. And you get NONE of the hassle. I’ve had mostly good success through this route.
Full disclosure, I don’t work for any of them, just an impartial observation.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by piecesofthegame

If you consign through a high volume seller like Probstein, 4 Corners, Greg Morris, etc, they get completely different rates than the average guy. Check their rates on their websites. Generally anything over $1000 will net you 95%. And you get NONE of the hassle. I’ve had mostly good success through this route.
Full disclosure, I don’t work for any of them, just an impartial observation.

Ah, makes sense.

[Carter08]

Originally Posted by piecesofthegame

If you consign through a high volume seller like Probstein, 4 Corners, Greg Morris, etc, they get completely different rates than the average guy. Check their rates on their websites. Generally anything over $1000 will net you 95%. And you get NONE of the hassle. I’ve had mostly good success through this route.
Full disclosure, I don’t work for any of them, just an impartial observation.

Would have zero problem selling with probstein in terms of the results he seems to get. My fear is I’ve heard you ship items to a place in Jersey, don’t really get communication from him about if they’re received and when they’re being put up. I tend to doubt this is true. Anyone who has actually used him?

[icurnmedic]

Originally Posted by Carter08

Would have zero problem selling with probstein in terms of the results he seems to get. My fear is I’ve heard you ship items to a place in Jersey, don’t really get communication from him about if they’re received and when they’re being put up. I tend to doubt this is true. Anyone who has actually used him?

I use him , frequently.
Never an issue with payment, and almost always get good results.
Contacted him one time about a mislabeled T206 back, and he personally called me to discuss options.
I really like the % you net selling with him and do not have to deal with the eBay azzhats!

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by icurnmedic

I use him , frequently.
Never an issue with payment, and almost always get good results.
Contacted him one time about a mislabeled T206 back, and he personally called me to discuss options.
I really like the % you net selling with him and do not have to deal with the eBay azzhats!

I do think there might be an opportunity for ebay sellers to capitalize on this.

[Mark17]

I'm watching inflation going on all around me with virtually everything I buy. I just constantly keep adjusting what I'm willing to pay, realizing the numbers across the board trend upwards. This is just another example.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by parkplace33

I do think there might be an opportunity for ebay sellers to capitalize on this.

Which is amusing as every time ebay does something that pisses off the rank and file we get consignments from people who are sick of Ebay.

Obviously you're talking about the power guys like Probstein, but Ebay is constantly abusing their smaller sellers, much to our benefit.

[joshleon]

I will be bidding 3% less. I think 20% was ample.

[Eric72]

Rick Probstein, in a YouTube interview a year or two ago, mentioned something that stuck with me. His business model involves a slimmer margin than traditional auction houses; however, he makes up for this through high volume.

We've all seen this in other sectors. Wal-Mart comes immediately to mind. It worked for Sam Walton. Apparently, it also works for Rick Probstein.

[cardsagain74]

Originally Posted by piecesofthegame

If you consign through a high volume seller like Probstein, 4 Corners, Greg Morris, etc, they get completely different rates than the average guy. Check their rates on their websites. Generally anything over $1000 will net you 95%. And you get NONE of the hassle. I’ve had mostly good success through this route.
Full disclosure, I don’t work for any of them, just an impartial observation.

Don't know about the others, but Greg Morris is nowhere close to this.

Last I looked, it was $5 k minimum submission for consignment. And they take 25% of raw vintage consigned sales.

[CardPadre]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

Don't know about the others, but Greg Morris is nowhere close to this.

Last I looked, it was $5 k minimum submission for consignment. And they take 25% of raw vintage consigned sales.

Greg Morris is similar on graded stuff, though.

[parkplace33]

Originally Posted by CardPadre

Greg Morris is similar on graded stuff, though.

25 percent of raw sales! Goodness.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by cardsagain74

Don't know about the others, but Greg Morris is nowhere close to this.

Last I looked, it was $5 k minimum submission for consignment. And they take 25% of raw vintage consigned sales.

Originally Posted by parkplace33

25 percent of raw sales! Goodness.

Is that really much different from an AH? If there's a 20% BP and some seller commission (which is probably at least 5% if not more on lower priced items), then selling through an AH is costing at least 25% if not more.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by piecesofthegame

I find all the discussion about BP a lot like going to your cell phone provider’s store to get a new phone or change your plan…ridiculously confusing! They are literally in the business of running rings around you with the numbers. It’s what they are paid to do.
As mentioned by many previously, they can charge whatever they want for BP, it’s not going to change what I’m willing to pay in the end. I have a figure in mind, I make my bids and and mentally add the % to my bid, and when it’s over my bid, see ya next time.

Now here’s what I DON’T understand. Why are reputable companies who sell using ebay (Probstein, 4 Corners), not viewed as a better option for a consigner than large auction houses? The major ones using eBay offer 95% of the sale price on items selling over $1000. So do the math…

$5000 card through auction house
$4000 bid + 23%=$4920.Result to consigners is $4K IF…IF they have 0% consignment fee. That’s best case scenario.

$5000 card on eBay through Probstein, 4 Corners, etc
$4920 winning bid (to keep all things equal). Result to consigner after 5% fee=$4674.
This seems like a No-Brainer for a consigner. What am I missing? I realize when we get into 5 digit, 6 digit, and 7 digit cards, no one will throw them up on eBay and hope for the best. But for the $1000-$10000 cards, I don’t understand why it’s not considered as an option by more consigners.

With all due respect, unless I'm missing something, your comparison doesn't make sense.

With an auction house, the buyer's premium has to be factored in after the hammer price.
A card that sells for $5,000.00 will net the consignor $5,000.00 if there is no consignment fee as you stated. The buyer pays the $5,000.00 plus 23% for a total cost of $6,150.00 to the buyer.

If the card sells for $4,000.00 before the buyer's fee, like in your auction house example, it's not a $5,000.00 card - it's a $4,000.00 card, in which the consignor with no fee gets $4,000.00.

The problem is that you compared a $4,000.00 winning bid (auction house) to a $4,920 winning bid (on eBay through Probstein, 4 Corners, etc).

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

With all due respect, unless I'm missing something, your comparison doesn't make sense.

With an auction house, the buyer's premium has to be factored in after the hammer price.
A card that sells for $5,000.00 will net the consignor $5,000.00 if there is no consignment fee as you stated. The buyer pays the $5,000.00 plus 23% for a total cost of $6,150.00 to the buyer.

If the card sells for $4,000.00 before the buyer's fee, like in your auction house example, it's not a $5,000.00 card - it's a $4,000.00 card, in which the consignor with no fee gets $4,000.00.

The problem is that you compared a $4,000.00 winning bid (auction house) to a $4,920 winning bid (on eBay through Probstein, 4 Corners, etc).

The assumption in the example you are questioning is that the bidder is taking the BP into consideration when placing a bid so that the selling price with the BP equals the selling price on eBay. Of course, not all bidders do this, but many on this board claim they do (or at least try to).

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by jayshum

The assumption in the example you are questioning is that the bidder is taking the BP into consideration when placing a bid so that the selling price with the BP equals the selling price on eBay. Of course, not all bidders do this, but many on this board claim they do (or at least try to).

Fair enough. But what I questioned was the argument that the seller would get less with an auction house than Ebay as the original poster stated - which is wrong. 0% commission means the consignor gets 100% of the winning bid total. He tried to state that with a $5,000.00 winning bid, the consignor would only get $4,000.00 despite a 0% commission.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

Fair enough. But what I questioned was the argument that the seller would get less with an auction house than Ebay as the original poster stated - which is wrong. 0% commission means the consignor gets 100% of the winning bid total. He tried to state that with a $5,000.00 winning bid, the consignor would only get $4,000.00 despite a 0% commission.

The 0% commission referred to is saying that the seller is not paying any commission to the auction house so they keep whatever the high bid is. However, the argument that was made is that when an auction house has a 23% BP, if the high bid is $4000 then the final selling price is really $4920, but the seller only gets $4000 and the auction house keeps $920.

On eBay, if a consignment company charges 5% of the high bid, if the high bid is $4920 (same as the selling price with the auction house including the BP), then the seller gets $4674 (95% of $4920) and the consignment company gets $246 (5% of $4920).

In the 2 cases above, the card is selling for $4920. One is a high bid plus BP (auction house) while the other is just a high bid (consignment house on eBay). When comparing the above outcomes, the seller is getting $4674 from the consignment company selling the card on eBay versus $4000 from the auction house.

[rand1com]

Ebay is unlikely to bring as much as top AHs on most items. There is no OT bidding on Ebay so an under bidder who is willing to pay more has no opportunity unless they put in a ceiling bid in advance of the close. The option of jumping back in after the initial bidding is closed often is the big difference in AHs. I see plenty of completed auctions on EBay that fall well under market even with the big guys previously mentioned. It is more of a crap shoot IMO.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by jayshum

The 0% commission referred to is saying that the seller is not paying any commission to the auction house so they keep whatever the high bid is. However, the argument that was made is that when an auction house has a 23% BP, if the high bid is $4000 then the final selling price is really $4920, but the seller only gets $4000 and the auction house keeps $920.

On eBay, if a consignment company charges 5% of the high bid, if the high bid is $4920 (same as the selling price with the auction house including the BP), then the seller gets $4674 (95% of $4920) and the consignment company gets $246 (5% of $4920).

In the 2 cases above, the card is selling for $4920. One is a high bid plus BP (auction house) while the other is just a high bid (consignment house on eBay). When comparing the above outcomes, the seller is getting $4674 from the consignment company selling the card on eBay versus $4000 from the auction house.

These are not equal comparisons. Both you and Ben are comparing a closing bid of $4,000.00 with the auction house, to a closing bid of $4,920 on Ebay. Honestly, can you not see the difference??

IF the closing bid for both the auction house and eBay is $4,920.00, which is all that matters in making a fair comparison, the seller with the auction house and a 0% commission fee gets $4,920. The eBay seller pays 5% commission which is $246.00, for a net total of $4,674.00 to the seller.

You're comparing two DIFFERENT high bid totals. You don't add the buyer's premium INTO the high bid, it's added ON TOP of the high bid. Of course the buyer will get more for a card that sells for a HIGH BID of $4,920 on eBay, compared to a card that sells for a HIGH BID of $4,000.00 at an auction house. I don't know how to better spell it out.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

These are not equal comparisons. Both you and Ben are comparing a closing bid of $4,000.00 with the auction house, to a closing bid of $4,920 on Ebay. Honestly, can you not see the difference??

IF the closing bid for both the auction house and eBay is $4,920.00, which is all that matters in making a fair comparison, the seller with the auction house and a 0% commission fee gets $4,920. The eBay seller pays 5% commission which is $246.00, for a net total of $4,674.00 to the seller.

You're comparing two DIFFERENT high bid totals. You don't add the buyer's premium INTO the high bid, it's added ON TOP of the high bid. Of course the buyer will get more for a card that sells for a HIGH BID of $4,920 on eBay, compared to a card that sells for a HIGH BID of $4,000.00 at an auction house. I don't know how to better spell it out.

The assumption being made is that the selling price is the same because the buyer is including the BP being added on when determining what their high bid will be. If that's the case, then the example is correct. Yes, the high bids are different, but what the buyer pays isn't.

If the selling prices are different (which is what happens if the actual high bids are the same), then yes, the consigner will do better with the auction house, but since many people say they include the BP when deciding what their high bid will be, it's more likely that the high bid will be lower if there's a BP added on top of it.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

With all due respect, unless I'm missing something, your comparison doesn't make sense.

With an auction house, the buyer's premium has to be factored in after the hammer price.
A card that sells for $5,000.00 will net the consignor $5,000.00 if there is no consignment fee as you stated. The buyer pays the $5,000.00 plus 23% for a total cost of $6,150.00 to the buyer.

If the card sells for $4,000.00 before the buyer's fee, like in your auction house example, it's not a $5,000.00 card - it's a $4,000.00 card, in which the consignor with no fee gets $4,000.00.

The problem is that you compared a $4,000.00 winning bid (auction house) to a $4,920 winning bid (on eBay through Probstein, 4 Corners, etc).

I believe you are confused because the real winning bid through the AH isn't $4000. It is the total of the actual price the winner pays including the BP.

I see it this way if the consignor isn't also hit with a sellers fee from AH.
Card sells for $5K on eBay so after fees(5%) seller gets $4750. 5% of $5K is $250.
Card sells for $5K at AH. Seller gets $4065 after the AH takes the BP(23%) from the real sale price($5K) the buyer paid. The $4065 is the "winning"(LOL) bid before the 23% buyers premium is added to the real selling price the buyer paid.

If I am wrong someone please post the math. To be clear I do not care how the AH tries to add confusing fees to get more cash from the consignor or trick buyers into bidding more than they thought. As long as I know the numbers up front I am good.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I believe you are confused because the real winning bid through the AH isn't $4000. It is the total of the actual price the winner pays including the BP.

I see it this way if the consignor isn't also hit with a sellers fee from AH.
Card sells for $5K on eBay so after fees(5%) seller gets $4750. 5% of $5K is $250.
Card sells for $5K at AH. Seller gets $4065 after the AH takes the BP(23%) from the real sale price($5K) the buyer paid. The $4065 is the "winning"(LOL) bid before the 23% buyers premium is added to the real selling price the buyer paid.

If I am wrong someone please post the math. To be clear I do not care how the AH tries to add confusing fees to get more cash from the consignor or trick buyers into bidding more than they thought. As long as I know the numbers up front I am good.

The buyer's premium isn't SUBTRACTED from the winning bid, it's ADDED.
So, if the bid total is $5,000.00 at auction end, the buyer's premium of 23% is ADDED to this total, not SUBTRACTED as in your example. So the buyer would pay a total of $6,150.00 as I previously mentioned.

The consignor - if paying no fees as was the original example given - receives $5000.00, which was the total of bidding at auction end.

Think about it logically, if the winning bid at the end of the auction is $5,000.00, and the consignor pays 0% commission, how could he possible end up with $4,000.00, as in the example of the original poster. 0 is 0 no?? not 20% ??

So again, the buyer's premium is ADDED to the final hammer price, it is not taken from it.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Huysmans

The buyer's premium isn't SUBTRACTED from the winning bid, it's ADDED.
So, if the bid total is $5,000.00 at auction end, the buyer's premium of 23% is ADDED to this total, not SUBTRACTED as in your example. So the buyer would pay a total of $6,150.00 as I previously mentioned.

The consignor - if paying no fees as was the original example given - receives $5000.00, which was the total of bidding at auction end.

Think about it logically, if the winning bid at the end of the auction is $5,000.00, and the consignor pays 0% commission, how could he possible end up with $4,000.00, as in the example of the original poster. 0 is 0 no?? not 20% ??

So again, the buyer's premium is ADDED to the final hammer price, it is not taken from it.

I get how it works. Take my example and actually do the math. My example shows the buyer paying the exact $5k total for their purchase in both examples. OK my math is actually a few pennies off because in my example the buyer at the AH really only paid $4999.95 for the card the consignor will receive $4065 for.

Seriously please show me the math when the real total selling price the buyer pays is $5K.

[Huysmans]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I get how it works. Take my example and actually do the math. My example shows the buyer paying the exact $5k total for their purchase in both examples. OK my math is actually a few pennies off because in my example the buyer at the AH really only paid $4999.95 for the card the consignor will receive $4065 for.

Seriously please show me the math when the real total selling price the buyer pays is $5K.

Yes, your example shows the BUYERS paying the same price. So what?? What the seller gets is in relation to the FINAL HIGH BID, not what the buyer's FINAL price is. Again, the buyer's commission price is ADDED to the HIGH BID with an auction house.

Seriously Ben, you're combining the winning bid with the buyer's fee as opposed to basing what the consignor gets which is based on the winning bid amount. The winning bid amount determines what the consignor gets, the buyer's fees are ADDITIONAL to that.