eBay trying to remove sniping

[jayshum]

I don't understand how this is going to cause lower prices. If someone still bids their highest bid right before the scheduled end time, it gives other bidders a chance to respond. It's what most other online auctions already do with extended bidding in an attempt to imitate a live auction.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

If this ends up being standard protocol, I guess the sniping services will have to re-format their websites accordingly. "Initial Snipe", "Secondary Snipe", "Tertiary Snipe", ad nauseum.

[Schlesinj]

I work in an industry that utilizes a 2 minute rule for an auction platform. In this case the auctions last 15 minutes and will get extended for each increment if the rate is reduced. The time is extended from 2 minutes at the point of a reduced rate not each time someone bids. These are blind auction with the bidders only knowing if they are not winning.

This has been standard for over 20 years. The bidders are used to it and generally have been a positive platform. It has produced lower rates (which is good in this case) vs the alternative.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Schlesinj

I work in an industry that utilizes a 2 minute rule for an auction platform. In this case the auctions last 15 minutes and will get extended for each increment if the rate is reduced. The time is extended from 2 minutes at the point of a reduced rate not each time someone bids. These are blind auction with the bidders only knowing if they are not winning.

This has been standard for over 20 years. The bidders are used to it and generally have been a positive platform. It has produced lower rates (which is good in this case) vs the alternative.

I don't understand what you are saying. What is the rate you are talking about? What do you mean that the time is extended from 2 minutes at the point of a reduced rate?

[Schlesinj]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I don't understand what you are saying. What is the rate you are talking about? What do you mean that the time is extended from 2 minutes at the point of a reduced rate?

I was trying to keep it generic since it sounds like a similar concept. The initial response of the bidders was they did not like it. It then became normal.

It is for the sale of municipal bonds to the primary investor (usually an investment bank). Rate just means overall interest rate and cost in this case. The lower the better for the issuer off be bonds.

[Knightlax5]

Originally Posted by Schlesinj

I was trying to keep it generic since it sounds like a similar concept. The initial response of the bidders was they did not like it. It then became normal.

It is for the sale of municipal bonds to the primary investor (usually an investment bank). Rate just means overall interest rate and cost in this case. The lower the better for the issuer off be bonds.

How are buying bonds the same as buying sports cards? There is no way they DECREASE the price in extended bidding, that would completely defeat the purpose.

[Schlesinj]

Originally Posted by Knightlax5

How are buying bonds the same as buying sports cards? There is no way they DECREASE the price in extended bidding, that would completely defeat the purpose.

Sorry to confuse you, lower rates resulting from an extra bid is same idea of extra bid for cards increased price for a card.

[Rhotchkiss]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I don't understand how this is going to cause lower prices. If someone still bids their highest bid right before the scheduled end time, it gives other bidders a chance to respond. It's what most other online auctions already do with extended bidding in an attempt to imitate a live auction.

Agreed. You can still put in your max or snipe bid and, if higher than the next increment, you will be autobid to the next increment. Here is a real life example of why/how it could work and be good:

Last night I wanted to win a Willie mays “the catch” ticket. With one minute left, it was at $5100. I put in my “snipe” max bid of $6559 with 4 seconds left. Turns out I was outbid by one increment by another sniper at $6659. However, given the chance, I likely would have bid another one or two times, but I was not given the option; the auction just ends.

So, the snipes work their way into out, establishing a high bid for extended bidding and then people can go back at it, in two minute increments, after that. Nothing but good for sellers. As a buyer, those wanting to get a deal from the auction ending absolutely may be harmed, but those buyers like me last night will be happy to be given another opportunity

One last thing- the customer is the seller, not the buyer. The job of an auction house is to maximize the price the seller gets. Fact. People always complain about changes that benefit the AH, who make a commission off the sale, or benefit sellers, but the seller is exactly who the AH is working for, not the buyers.

[doug.goodman]

There are two reasons to snipe :

1 - you put in a bid so late that nobody will have time to outbid you.

2 - you put in a bid so late that YOU will not have time to bid again if somebody has outbid you.

Either way, resetting the clock defeats both of those strategies, so of course the prices will go higher, and of course shilling will sometimes be involved.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

There are two reasons to snipe :

1 - you put in a bid so late that nobody will have time to outbid you.

2 - you put in a bid so late that YOU will not have time to bid again if somebody has outbid you.

Either way, resetting the clock defeats both of those strategies, so of course the prices will go higher, and of course shilling will sometimes be involved.

I snipe because I am not going to be glued to eBay. I win a fair amount and will win a lot, lot less if there is no sniping. They will do analytics after they test and make a decision. If losing bidders like myself doesn't hurt them as much as it helps the seller, and the seller is happy, that is all that counts. "Money" is almost always the answer.
As said, eBay's customers are their sellers. But if even more people leave than have in the recent few years, then more sellers might leave.

[doug.goodman]

Originally Posted by Leon

I snipe because I am not going to be glued to eBay. I win a fair amount and will win a lot, lot less if there is no sniping. They will do analytics after they test and make a decision. If losing bidders like myself doesn't hurt them as much as it helps the seller, and the seller is happy, that is all that counts. "Money" is almost always the answer.
As said, eBay's customers are their sellers. But if even more people leave than have in the recent few years, then more sellers might leave.

But you can still bid at the scheduled end of the auction the same way you always have with your "snipe", the only difference is that you won't watch the clock run out, instead you will get an email about payment, or you won't.

I don't understand why it would change what you would bid on a particular item that you are interested in.

I also have no interest in sitting on ebay all day or night, and I will still bid what I would have bid.

[Leon]

According to this thread, there are 3 reasons.

3 - Not being glued to eBay.
Buyers that only want something, but don't HAVE, to have it, like myself...just won't spend as much. That is a 100% certainty, where I am concerned.

Originally Posted by doug.goodman

There are two reasons to snipe :

1 - you put in a bid so late that nobody will have time to outbid you.

2 - you put in a bid so late that YOU will not have time to bid again if somebody has outbid you.

Either way, resetting the clock defeats both of those strategies, so of course the prices will go higher, and of course shilling will sometimes be involved.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Agreed. You can still put in your max or snipe bid and, if higher than the next increment, you will be autobid to the next increment. Here is a real life example of why/how it could work and be good:

Last night I wanted to win a Willie mays “the catch” ticket. With one minute left, it was at $5100. I put in my “snipe” max bid of $6559 with 4 seconds left. Turns out I was outbid by one increment by another sniper at $6659. However, given the chance, I likely would have bid another one or two times, but I was not given the option; the auction just ends.

So, the snipes work their way into out, establishing a high bid for extended bidding and then people can go back at it, in two minute increments, after that. Nothing but good for sellers. As a buyer, those wanting to get a deal from the auction ending absolutely may be harmed, but those buyers like me last night will be happy to be given another opportunity

One last thing- the customer is the seller, not the buyer. The job of an auction house is to maximize the price the seller gets. Fact. People always complain about changes that benefit the AH, who make a commission off the sale, or benefit sellers, but the seller is exactly who the AH is working for, not the buyers.

THIS ^^^

If ebay's analytics says this benefits sellers without alienating enough buyers they will roll it out for good. As a seller I love it (two buyers who really want it duking it out in 2 min increments - yummy). As a buyer hoping to steal it cheap with a snipe, I hate it. :-)

[nat]

I assume that they have a legion of econ and psych phds who determined that this will net them more money. I'll trust their judgment on this.

This probably doesn't change optimal bidding strategy though. If the thing is worth $X to you put in a snipe for $X (don't bid early - no use in giving free information to other bidders) and forget about it. Yes, someone can top you in extended bidding, but that shouldn't change your strategy. If bidding goes above $X you're better off not buying it than you would be buying it. If it would have sold for $(X - Y) under the old system and now sells for $(X - Z) for Z < Y, then you're paying more under this system than the old one, but as long as you don't watch the auction and get suckered into bidding above $X you're still getting the item for less than (or equal to) what it's worth to you. Which means that it's still rational to place your bids.

[jingram058]

I have bought and sold a lot on eBay over the years. I think I signed up the year after it started up. It used to be that eBay's stated policy on bidding was, place a bid with time remaining up to what you are comfortable paying for the item. If someone outbids or snipes you, oh well. Better luck next time. I have won some, lost some. That's just the nature of the game. Any more, and for the last few years, I only look for buy-it-nows in order to not get into any of this...no sniping, no outbid, none of it. Makes for a much more pleasant eBay experience, for me. Your mileage may vary.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Agreed. You can still put in your max or snipe bid and, if higher than the next increment, you will be autobid to the next increment. Here is a real life example of why/how it could work and be good:

Last night I wanted to win a Willie mays “the catch” ticket. With one minute left, it was at $5100. I put in my “snipe” max bid of $6559 with 4 seconds left. Turns out I was outbid by one increment by another sniper at $6659. However, given the chance, I likely would have bid another one or two times, but I was not given the option; the auction just ends.

So, the snipes work their way into out, establishing a high bid for extended bidding and then people can go back at it, in two minute increments, after that. Nothing but good for sellers. As a buyer, those wanting to get a deal from the auction ending absolutely may be harmed, but those buyers like me last night will be happy to be given another opportunity

One last thing- the customer is the seller, not the buyer. The job of an auction house is to maximize the price the seller gets. Fact. People always complain about changes that benefit the AH, who make a commission off the sale, or benefit sellers, but the seller is exactly who the AH is working for, not the buyers.

All of that is true, but I stay glued to my computer with the Auction Houses so much, I don't want to stay glued to Ebay....Just set the snipe and be gone. But I guess if there is something I can't live without (rarely) I will play. "Stuff" trumps a little annoyance.
.

.

[dariushou]

Originally Posted by jayshum

I don't understand how this is going to cause lower prices. If someone still bids their highest bid right before the scheduled end time, it gives other bidders a chance to respond. It's what most other online auctions already do with extended bidding in an attempt to imitate a live auction.

Very simple. The number of bidders will decrease. For one, it increases the opportunity of shill bidders which will turn off some bidders such ad myself. Two, I have better things to do with my time than sit at computer all day when ebay auctions end at all times of the day. There will be bidders such as myself who will not bid on such auctions. Plain and simple. Just not for me and I buy a lot.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Originally Posted by dariushou

Very simple. The number of bidders will decrease. For one, it increases the opportunity of shill bidders which will turn off some bidders such ad myself. Two, I have better things to do with my time than sit at computer all day when ebay auctions end at all times of the day. There will be bidders such as myself who will not bid on such auctions. Plain and simple. Just not for me and I buy a lot.

I agree with this.

From the perspective of a seller/consignor, I also understand the fair points made by the other camp. For myself, as both a buyer and seller, therein lies the hypocrisy!

[darwinbulldog]

Looks like the consensus is this will bring prices down, so I'm all for it.

[Rich Klein]

But my friend Beau is an EBay live seller and explained on a BUISNESS reason why he thought this move was long overdue for EBay about extended bidding.

And, to be honest, if you really want the item, you'll still bid on it. What is the expression in here: Stuff Trumps All!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fu_27-8fFQ

Regards
Rich

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by dariushou

Very simple. The number of bidders will decrease. For one, it increases the opportunity of shill bidders which will turn off some bidders such ad myself. Two, I have better things to do with my time than sit at computer all day when ebay auctions end at all times of the day. There will be bidders such as myself who will not bid on such auctions. Plain and simple. Just not for me and I buy a lot.

Most major auction houses already do what eBay is now testing and possibly going to switch to. From the results of most auctions, it doesn't seem like they are hurting for bidders. Just curious but do you not bid in any of those auctions because of their extended bidding rules?

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Most major auction houses already do what eBay is now testing and possibly going to switch to. From the results of most auctions, it doesn't seem like they are hurting for bidders. Just curious but do you not bid in any of those auctions because of their extended bidding rules?

eBay is 24/7/365 and as such is a dynamic experience. Auction houses have catalogs that have a limited amount of items that end on a particular day.

I am not as smart as most who have posted that it will be great or horrible for sellers. I just know that most people hate change. Many people hate eBay and their changes usually screw up the site and lastly, nothing has ever stopped a collector from trying to buy something that they want. If we can all overlook blatant fraud and still bid, a little change like this should not be an obstacle.

[OhioLawyerF5]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Most major auction houses already do what eBay is now testing and possibly going to switch to. From the results of most auctions, it doesn't seem like they are hurting for bidders. Just curious but do you not bid in any of those auctions because of their extended bidding rules?

If an auction house ends their auction at 2 am, yes, I am not bidding in extended bidding in those auctions. And therein lies the difference between ebay and an auction house. It's not an insignificant difference.

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

eBay is 24/7/365 and as such is a dynamic experience. Auction houses have catalogs that have a limited amount of items that end on a particular day.

I am not as smart as most who have posted that it will be great or horrible for sellers. I just know that most people hate change. Many people hate eBay and their changes usually screw up the site and lastly, nothing has ever stopped a collector from trying to buy something that they want. If we can all overlook blatant fraud and still bid, a little change like this should not be an obstacle.

Originally Posted by OhioLawyerF5

If an auction house ends their auction at 2 am, yes, I am not bidding in extended bidding in those auctions. And therein lies the difference between ebay and an auction house. It's not an insignificant difference.

No one says you have to stay up until 2AM because that's when extended bidding lasts until. All auctions that I am aware of allow you to place a maximum bid that will be bid up to automatically if necessary to keep you as the high bidder. If you don't want to bid that way because you're worried about shill bidding, that's your decision.

As for the comment about people hating change, you're definitely right about that. There were plenty of threads in the past about eBay not doing anything about fake items being listed. As soon as they introduced the authenticity guarantee, there were plenty of threads complaining about it. While it's not perfect, I would guess it has cut down considerably on fake items being sold. Similarly, I'd be surprised if switching to an extended bidding format will really impact prices negatively. For all the people who say they won't bid any more or will bid less, there will be many others who will bid more and higher because they have the chance to keep bidding to win something they really want. That's the psychology of an auction that leads people to pay more than they were planning in the first place.

[icollectDCsports]

Originally Posted by jayshum

Similarly, I'd be surprised if switching to an extended bidding format will really impact prices negatively. For all the people who say they won't bid any more or will bid less, there will be many others who will bid more and higher because they have the chance to keep bidding to win something they really want. That's the psychology of an auction that leads people to pay more than they were planning in the first place.

That’s the way I see it. In time, some people will decide to bid in fewer if any eBay auctions that use this extended time format. But some of the people who do bid will end up bidding more than they would under the current format. The impact on final prices? It could go either way and I’m not sure we’ll know for sure unless there is an obvious change one way or the other for prices for comparable items before and after the new system is implemented.

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

A lot of people value and appreciate the hard closings of eBay auctions. This system has been in place for 30 years and has made them ungodly amounts of money. As others have noted, yes, they'd be changing this in an effort to make more money for their sellers, but the bottom line is always to make more money for themselves. They are doing just fine without being even more greedy. We're all their customers, whether we're buying or selling.

There is something great about seeing "Item ends at 10:02 a.m. on July 8" and knowing that at any time after 10:02:01, I can hop on there and be given a definitive answer if I have won or lost an auction. After that time, I can move on with other matters in my life.

As to auction house end times:

In my younger days, I might stay awake until stupid o'clock following along, or going to bed at a normal hour, but losing sleep, wondering if I had won anything and not being able to sleep as a result. Frankly, as gentle a version as it may be, these late hours are an unwelcome form of torture on the part of auction houses, especially when a hard close could give everyone who puts food on their table and pays for their children's educations a better night's rest. Not to mention, the auction house staff could also turn in at a decent hour! But, follow the money. Always the money.

Fine, keep your 15 minute rule, but finalize everything by 10:00 p.m. EST. Done. Finished. Customers/consignors can know what they bought or sold and can get ready for the coming day. This is fair to both coasts and those in the middle. Practically everybody has a smart phone so they can view and bid wherever, whenever. 7:00 p.m. on the west coast is good enough. If it isn't, then fine, how about 8:00? Not a nanosecond later. Nobody seems to be doing this, why? What are the reasons for these super late closings, again? Can't we move past this, please? Oh yeah, I guess we can't. They wouldn't want to miss out on the late night overbidding of all the Joe Imbibers out there.

[Brian Van Horn]

Oh, great! I'll be watching a football game and when it gets to the two minute warning I'll be thinking about eBay. Well, so much for shill bidding anonymous.

[YazFenway08]

For the first time tonight, I had two snipes fail.

Piddly stuff…but stuff I wanted nonetheless.

I was the high bidder (or would have been) but I “lost” due to “too many requests” I had never seen that before, but when I did some research I found some threads from years ago where this happened to other folks.

Is this directly related to this new eBay policy/attempt to stop sniping…or something else?

I won several auctions yesterday…so this was weird.

[toledo_mudhen]

Have been on eBay for 30ish years now - Both as Bidder and Seller.

When I am buying I simply enter the total dollar amount that I am willing to pay for the card and if I win - FINE and if I lose - FINE.

When I am selling I typically add the Buy It Now option in all of my auction items.

Very rarely do I see anything that makes me want to "stay glued to the screen" in order to win.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by toledo_mudhen

When I am buying I simply enter the total dollar amount that I am willing to pay for the card and if I win - FINE and if I lose - FINE.

Do this with a snipe and you won’t have to show your max until the end. Keeps you from getting run up.