1989 Fleer Bill Ripken White Box

[jp1216]

Originally Posted by bnorth

I use the Lenny rule, if I never seen Lenny selling it I consider it something someone faked/altered when it comes to the Ripken card.

Leonard Helicher - one of the OG FF dealers. Sadly passed in early 2020. He always said - ALL Whiteout cards (not White Scribbles) are FAKE. He had direct links inside Fleer and obtained lots of stuff smuggled out by employees.

I obtained many rare cards from Lenny!

I'm still amazed how many people buy these fake/altered cards every week. Hundreds of dollars each. Too many scammers taking a $1 Black Box version and printing money five minutes later. Graded/Authentic or not - they are Post Production creations! Hand altered after printing. Smooth surface or not. Consistent shine/gloss or not. They were likely never printed this way.

I always consider the White Scribble the true 'whited out' card. Legit factory printed version.

[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by jp1216

Leonard Helicher - one of the OG FF dealers. Sadly passed in early 2020. He always said - ALL Whiteout cards (not White Scribbles) are FAKE. He had direct links inside Fleer and obtained lots of stuff smuggled out by employees.

I obtained many rare cards from Lenny!

I'm still amazed how many people buy these fake/altered cards every week. Hundreds of dollars each. Too many scammers taking a $1 Black Box version and printing money five minutes later. Graded/Authentic or not - they are Post Production creations! Hand altered after printing. Smooth surface or not. Consistent shine/gloss or not. They were likely never printed this way.

I always consider the White Scribble the true 'whited out' card. Legit factory printed version.

So this is very helpful. There is an obvious distinction between "white scribble' and 'whiteout,' correct? Most examples of a white scribble do appear to be printed on the card which makes sense because there doesnt seem to be variance in the remaining bits of the knob words. Done by hand would require a ton of effort to match a real example.

If I understand correctly, whiteouts are all human made, either via Fleer employees in 1989 or people attempting to trick buyers. This my next question, why would PSA slab a card with an aberrant surface? Can't imagine they'd miss the texture difference.

Lastly, so in your collecting history, have you ever encountered what Gilkeson describes in a white box "nearly identical to the black box" version? I will reread this guide every few years and almost always find something new to look into, in this case, I had never heard of (or seen) a white box version of this card.

[jp1216]

Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage

So this is very helpful. There is an obvious distinction between "white scribble' and 'whiteout,' correct? Most examples of a white scribble do appear to be printed on the card which makes sense because there doesnt seem to be variance in the remaining bits of the knob words. Done by hand would require a ton of effort to match a real example.

Most (but not all Whiteouts are real cards with altered surfaces). There are fake Whiteout cards too. Bogus cheap reprint fakes. White Scribbles also have fake/bogus examples floating around out there. I've seen them sell for $300! Sad.

Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage

If I understand correctly, whiteouts are all human made, either via Fleer employees in 1989 or people attempting to trick buyers. This my next question, why would PSA slab a card with an aberrant surface? Can't imagine they'd miss the texture difference.

You'd have to ask the 'experts'. Again, the texture/surface can be made to look real in 5 minutes. I'm sure practice makes perfect...

Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage

Lastly, so in your collecting history, have you ever encountered what Gilkeson describes in a white box "nearly identical to the black box" version? I will reread this guide every few years and almost always find something new to look into, in this case, I had never heard of (or seen) a white box version of this card.

I do have a couple cards that look close to Gilkeson's example. But I can also make one very easily. I try not to post these weird oddballs too much. It can lead to numerous fakes popping up overnight.

[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by jp1216

Most (but not all Whiteouts are real cards with altered surfaces). There are fake Whiteout cards too. Bogus cheap reprint fakes. White Scribbles also have fake/bogus examples floating around out there. I've seen them sell for $300! Sad.



You'd have to ask the 'experts'. Again, the texture/surface can be made to look real in 5 minutes. I'm sure practice makes perfect...




I do have a couple cards that look close to Gilkeson's example. But I can also make one very easily. I try not to post these weird oddballs too much. It can lead to numerous fakes popping up overnight.

Fair enough.

My interest in the Ripkens only went as far as whether or not this box version existed, I'm always excited about new discoveries in junk wax sets. The info you and BNorth have shared has been very helpful in understanding the whole whiteout thing. For years I've seen them turn up on comc and ebay and always felt they looked like someone had taken an eraser to them, a practice I'm familiar with while trying to chase down a rumored 1990 Upper Deck variation over the years.

[jp1216]

The real rare cards listed by Gilkeson are those 'Semi Airbrushed' versions (j). I call them 'Circle Scribbles'. Black, circular pattern found in a few levels of coverage. Harder to find than White Scribbles.
He also refers to colored dots. I am not 100% sure but I assume he's talking about the Red 'Bulls Eye' dot found on 1% of FFs. The White dots - he could be talking about the random White circles/dots found on most versions of the card. Fish eyes? The 'Blue' Dot could be the random purplish/pinkish dots I've found on a few Black Box cards.
Just print defects - not versions/variations.

The Gilkeson article was published in the July 1990 issue of Tuff Stuff (Nolan Ryan cover)

[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by jp1216

The real rare cards listed by Gilkeson are those 'Semi Airbrushed' versions (j). I call them 'Circle Scribbles'. Black, circular pattern found in a few levels of coverage. Harder to find than White Scribbles.
He also refers to colored dots. I am not 100% sure but I assume he's talking about the Red 'Bulls Eye' dot found on 1% of FFs. The White dots - he could be talking about the random White circles/dots found on most versions of the card. Fish eyes? The 'Blue' Dot could be the random purplish/pinkish dots I've found on a few Black Box cards.
Just print defects - not versions/variations.

The Gilkeson article was published in the July 1990 issue of Tuff Stuff (Nolan Ryan cover)

There are many, many, Gilkeson variations that I can only guess as to what he is describing. Some of which I have been chasing down since acquiring his book in 2004. A handful of my queries made their way to him 10 years or so ago only to find that he doesn't recall the card(s), which is totally fair. I had the same questions on those 'dot' mentions.

[philliesfan]

I m not sure if this is the variation you are looking for but I sold this on ebay some time ago. Maybe within the last three years.
Bob

1989 Fleer Ripken white scribble.jpg

1989 Fleer Ripken white scribble Close Up.jpg