1958 Jay Publishing Phillies

[rayfg]

Does anyone have a Jay Publishing Picture pack photo with "Philadelphia Phillies" as the team that they know is from 1958? The photos that just list the team name as "Phillies" are not Jay Publishing.

[whiteymet]

Originally Posted by rayfg

Does anyone have a Jay Publishing Picture pack photo with "Philadelphia Phillies" as the team that they know is from 1958? The photos that just list the team name as "Phillies" are not Jay Publishing.

I have the complete run of Jay and Penn Sportservice photos in original envelopes.

My sets start in 1956 but I guess the 56 and 57 are not Jay because supposedly Jay's started in 1958. I have two different 56 sets One with Murray Dickson and the other ( later ) with Haddix taking Dickson's place. I also have two 57 sets with Blaylock and Bouchee trading places among other changes. All the 56 and 57 sets say just Phillies after the players name.

The Jay photos started in 1958. And the Jay photos from 1958 only say Phillies.

Starting in 1959-1961 The Jay photos say Philadelphia Phillies. However where you may be getting confused starting in 1961 there is also a Penn Sportservice set ( often called team issue) that was for sale at the stadium. I know because I bought some at Connie Mack stadium during those years. Those Penn Sportservice photos are similar to the Jay and they say only Phillies after the players name.

In 1961 there are actually three different sets with changing checklists for these Penn Sportservice sets. There were both Jay and Penn Sportservice issues through 1965 when I believe Jay photos stopped because the owner was killed in a plane crash.

The non Jay issues continued from 1966-1970 only saying Phillies.

Hope this helps

[whiteymet]

In my earlier post I said Jay photos " supposedly started in 1958" in referencing that I had sets in 1956 and 1957 that also said just Phillies like the 58 set. Meaning maybe Jay's started before 1958.

Or it could be the "team issued" sets started in 1956. Just strange that the earlier issues I have from 56 and 57 are the same basic "format" that the Jay photos adopted starting in 1958 save for the difference in team name. Same size, some of the same photos used etc..

[rayfg]

The above response says ".... supposedly Jay's started in 1958" and then says "The Jay photos started in 1958. And the Jay photos from 1958 only say Phillies." There is certainly a difference between "supposedly started" and "started". The 2008 SCD Catalogue lists the set that says only "Phillies" as the team name as "1958 Philadelphia Phillies Picture Pack" and notes in the discussion that this set differs from the Jay Publishing set which has "Philadelphia Phillies" as the team name. Unfortunately, in the 2008 catalogue, there is listing for 1958-1965 Jay Publishing Picture Packs but no checklist of photos. A checklist was available in the 2003 SCD Catalogue and the questionable 1958 Jay photos are listed there. This is all very confusing.

Checking on other teams, I see that the Yankees have 1958 Jay Publishing Photos with team name appearing as "New York Yankees". So Jay Publishing definitely had Photo Packs in 1958. I also checked the PSA population report for 1958-1961 Jay Publishing and none of the 1958 Phillies are players are listed. Maybe the answer is that Jay Publishing started in 1958 but did not do a Phillies team that year. But, of course, that is just an opinion based on research.

[AustinMike]

Originally Posted by rayfg

But, of course, that is just an opinion based on research.

Ray, I can assure you that Fred's opinion is also based on research.

Fred is not saying that Jay Publishing did not produce sets in 1958. He is only questioning whether they produced sets prior to 1958. I am in agreement with him on this, I think Jay Publishing, or some subsidiary of theirs, started doing photo sets in 1956.

I do not collect Phillies photo sets, but I do collect Yankee photo sets. I will use them as the basis for my belief that Jay produced photo sets prior to 1958.

The following attachment is a copy of a page from the 1956 Yankees yearbook designed and edited by Jay Publishing.

1956 Yearbook page resized.jpg

The following attachment is a scan of the photo in a 1956 Yankees photo set. Plus, there are other players whose photo in the yearbook matches their photo in the photo set. So, in some form or fashion, I think Jay Publishing had a hand in the production of photo sets from 1956 and 1957.

1956 Berra Jay Publishing resized.jpg

In regards to your research, reviewing other source material is a great start. Besides SCD catalogues, you can check the following sites:

https://keymancollectibles.com/photo...stphillies.htm

https://www.tcdb.com/ViewSet.cfm/sid...s-Picture-Pack

However, these sources are not infallible and must be taken with a grain of salt. I know for a fact that there are errors in the Keyman Collectibles Yankees checklist. Also, when trying to submit information to TCDB, I was informed that it didn't match what Keyman Collectibles showed and therefore wasn't accepted. Even though I have scans of the photos which I was willing to send to TCDB, their "research" said my checklist didn't match Keyman's and that was the end of that.

[rayfg]

AustinMike, I agree with you and whiteymet that the team issue photo packs not attributed to Jay Publishing does not mean that Jay was not involved with them, probably starting in 1956. There are just too many similarities. My guess is that they printed and supplied all these photo packs from 1956-66.

I noticed also that the photos used by TCDB for the "1957 Jay Publishing New York Yankees World Series Picture Pack" set lists the team name as "New York Yankees". So, if those photos are accurate, Jay issued sets in 1957. I'm basing this on the seemingly accepted definition for Jay photo sets as having the city as part of the team name.

I suppose I will just collect all the Phillies photos from the 1956-66 photo packs and probably never know who printed what. My original post asked about a Jay Publishing Phillies photo from 1958 with the city in the team name. Not having found any, leads me to believe such photos for the Phillies began in 1959. I will be happy to be proved wrong.