Ohtani or Ruth?

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

Perhaps they should cross your mind. The reason player salaries are so high is because the billionaires have enough money to pay them.

Perhaps. My heart though bleeds for neither.

[here2havefun]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Perhaps. My heart though bleeds for neither.

Everyone deserves to be paid their worth. From lowly dishwashers, to the global sports superstars that bring joy to millions of people's lives and who's skills are truly one-of-one.

[raulus]

If Ohtani is remembered for this one postseason game, then I vote Kershaw should always be remembered for this one:

http://espn.com/blog/sweetspot/post/...ns-off-kershaw

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by here2havefun

Everyone deserves to be paid their worth.

I don't actually agree with your statement the way it's phrased.

To say everyone should be paid what their "worth" presupposes that there can be some objective determinant of the value of some individual's labour and that the individual must then be paid that amount. This is nonsense. The value of any individual's labour cannot be objectively determined by an outside party. And for pay rates/scales to be enforced would be an Orwellian nightmare.

Now I don't believe there should be government legislative barriers against anyone being paid whatever he can get. But the "worth" question is another matter entirely. On the one hand to me so-and-so (e.g. many pro athletes) aren't worth as much as they're making. But it's not up to me. I'm willing to stand aside and watch as they get whatever they can get in the marketplace.

That being said I also jealously guard my inalienable right to support or refrain from supporting whichever individual/entity I please for whatever reason. I reserve the right to just say "No!" to silliness.

[BioCRN]

In a world where an owner buys the TB Rays for 1.7 billion dollars for a team that doesn't even have a stadium to play in right now...the players can take all the money they can squeeze from the owners.

Anything less would be stupid. It would make you a stupid worker. It would mean you have no idea what your value is. It would make you a sucker.

Just like a piece of cardboard, you're worth what you can extract from those who want the item...in this case, a human who can throw, pitch, or field (or 2 out of 3 for Ohtani in this thread's case).

It is the most anti-capitalist thing in the world to not achieve your value. I can't even imagine defending devaluing yourself to do the work the person is hiring you not only won't do, but can't do.

Get real. Know your value.

[steve B]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

I don't actually agree with your statement the way it's phrased.

To say everyone should be paid what their "worth" presupposes that there can be some objective determinant of the value of some individual's labour and that the individual must then be paid that amount. This is nonsense. The value of any individual's labour cannot be objectively determined by an outside party. And for pay rates/scales to be enforced would be an Orwellian nightmare.

Now I don't believe there should be government legislative barriers against anyone being paid whatever he can get. But the "worth" question is another matter entirely. On the one hand to me so-and-so (e.g. many pro athletes) aren't worth as much as they're making. But it's not up to me. I'm willing to stand aside and watch as they get whatever they can get in the marketplace.

That being said I also jealously guard my inalienable right to support or refrain from supporting whichever individual/entity I please for whatever reason. I reserve the right to just say "No!" to silliness.

The second paragraph I was totally against it until the outside party bit.

Assuming they're not stupid, any owner wouldn't pay someone the sort of money the stars get - what? 20 million/year? - if they didn't think that person would bring more than that to the business as profit.

That goes for pro players and pretty much all of us who aren't owners of a business. I had a discussion about it with a former employer once. I was a bit down because one of the other guys had given me a hard time about not billing much at all. I had a typical small business crazy job. Most purchasing, most inside sales, took nearly all calls to schedule service, Pulled parts for jobs, occasionally made parts, and did repairs both in the shop and on the road. Not very odd for a place with 5 people.

The guy I worked for asked me if I actually knew what product I provided to the company. I had no idea. The he asked what happened to the time on jobs I was interrupted while doing. Obviously if I had to take 3 calls during a 1 hour job it stretched it to 2 hours or more.
Exactly I was making sure the other guys weren't interrupted for anything but the most important questions. My product was time. My hour of doing "nothing" often translated to 2-3 hours of billable time.

So in a way most of us are probably paid what we're "worth" And yes, an outside party can't really determine that. But the people running the team or company can.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

At the risk of bringing the thread back on topic. When was the last time Babe Ruth stole 50+ bases while only being caught 4 times?

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

At the risk of bringing the thread back on topic. When was the last time Babe Ruth stole 50+ bases while only being caught 4 times?

In Ruth's time,the bases weren't pizza box-sized, and pitchers weren't limited in throwing to first .. (Not that Ruth would've stolen 50 even with those things)

[jayshum]

Originally Posted by BobbyStrawberry

In Ruth's time,the bases weren't pizza box-sized, and pitchers weren't limited in throwing to first .. (Not that Ruth would've stolen 50 even with those things)

If there's one area where it's hard to argue Ruth was better than Ohtani in, it's base stealing. Ruth did steal 123 bases but was caught stealing 116 times not including his caught stealing to end the 1926 World Series.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

At the risk of bringing the thread back on topic. When was the last time Babe Ruth stole 50+ bases while only being caught 4 times?

As if anyone cares how many bases Ruth stole. It's like asking how many rushing yards Tom Brady had, or something.

SUMMARY
Career

WAR
182.6

AB
8399

H
2873

HR
714

BA
.342

R
2174

RBI
2214

SB
123

OBP
.474

SLG
.690

OPS
1.164

OPS+
206

[rats60]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

At the risk of bringing the thread back on topic. When was the last time Babe Ruth stole 50+ bases while only being caught 4 times?

The last season under the old rules, Ohtani attempted 20 steals and was thrown out 9 times. It is amazing how easy it is to steal bases now.

[bk400]

Originally Posted by rats60

The last season under the old rules, Ohtani attempted 20 steals and was thrown out 9 times. It is amazing how easy it is to steal bases now.

The year before the rule change, Ohtani was pitching also. Won his first of what will be 3 MVPs as a two way player. In the one year when he wasn't pitching, he was second in the league in stolen bases. Perhaps it is easier to steal bases now, but on a relative basis, he did pretty well when he decided to give it a real go.

I've been doing more research on Ruth's career. He really only had one full season as a two way player -- 1919. And many of his contemporaries were also two way players, like George Sisler. Being a two way player was also fairly common in the Negro Leagues, with stars like Martin Dihigo and Bullet Rogan leading the way. It's debatable whether Ruth was even the best two way player of his era, given others who did it and how short Ruth's two way career actually was.

In marked contrast, Ohtani is peerless in this era and every other for the past 100 years.

[KJA]

Originally Posted by rats60

The last season under the old rules, Ohtani attempted 20 steals and was thrown out 9 times. It is amazing how easy it is to steal bases now.

With how easy it is I was hoping for more of an explosion like in the 80's.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by steve B

The second paragraph I was totally against it until the outside party bit.

To put it very precisely I'm absolutely opposed to the government being involved in determining and enforcing pay scales. That should be decided by mutual agreement between the employer and employee, i.e. determined in the marketplace.

[BobbyStrawberry]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

To put it very precisely I'm absolutely opposed to the government being involved in determining and enforcing pay scales. That should be decided by mutual agreement between the employer and employee, i.e. determined in the marketplace.

It sounds like you are unaware of the history of labor relations in baseball.