What is the most overhyped, overpriced Junk Wax era card?

[Eric72]

To me, it’s the 1990 Score Bo Jackson. Sure, it’s a cool looking card. Score made (sarcasm incoming) enough of these to tile a floor the size of Texas, though.

Raw copies seem to sell routinely for $10+ and graded copies go for stupid money. There’s no way this should be anything more than dollar box fodder…and even that’s a leap.

[sthoemke]

1990 Fleer Jose Uribe

[Balticfox]

1989 Upper Deck Ken Griffey Jr.

[todeen]

Billy Ripken FF.

As for 1989 Upper Deck KGJ, have you seen how much low grade copies sell for?

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[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

1989 Upper Deck Ken Griffey Jr.

100% this. More of this card out there than any other in that set.

[Brent G.]

It might be iconic by definition, but UD Griffey is the answer.

[gonefishin]

There are a few, but the Billy Ripkin FF and the Marlboro Randy Johnson. I also can't believe how either of these cards are worth more than 10c.

[JustinD]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

1989 Upper Deck Ken Griffey Jr.

I can’t think of any other answer. There must be a minimum of 25 million of these and another 25 sitting unopened in storage. It should be no more than a dollar.

[BioCRN]

I'm still blown away and impressed by how well Bo Jackson's fame has held up in the hobby.

I've seen kids who weren't even born when he was a player get excited to pull a Bo card. His autos still pull decent loot on resell.

He was a force of mainstream advertising gold for 2-3 years, but his star power there faded fast...yet, his popularity and place in baseball/football lore still holds.

He was out-competed by his peer also playing at the same time, Deion Sanders, in both sports...but Bo is still king in the hobby compared to him.

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

There are a few, but the Billy Ripkin FF and the Marlboro Randy Johnson. I also can't believe how either of these cards are worth more than 10c.

As someone who has owned every version except the Clear Marlboro version and one of the Circle Scribble Ripkens I say that is blasphemy.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

There are a few, but the Billy Ripkin FF and the Marlboro Randy Johnson. I also can't believe how either of these cards are worth more than 10c.

Even back in 1989, the Ripken was a $50 card. Save for the brief time when very few people knew of the "error", this card has always had value.

[Balticfox]

When did the junk wax era begin anyway? And is there an end in sight?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

When did the junk wax era begin anyway? And is there an end in sight?

It depends, in the 80s we thought it was the 60s.

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

When did the junk wax era begin anyway? And is there an end in sight?

The term, "Junk Wax Era" is generally understood to be from the mid-to-late '80s through the early '90s.

[deweyinthehall]

Odd that this thread appears in my feed directly next to the one about what the heck is going on with the 1989 UD Griffey...one may answer the other.

[todeen]

Originally Posted by Eric72

The term, "Junk Wax Era" is generally understood to be from the mid-to-late '80s through the early '90s.

Lots of collectors call junk wax up through 2000. I like to tell them they are mistaken.

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[Seven]

It's the UD Griffey. There are other Griffey Rookie issues that look better, and it was massively produced. And yes I understand that he was a fan favorite, and it's "The Kid," and that there's always the "What it?" question that surrounds his career. He's not an inner circle Hall of Famer, in my opinion he's not even a Top 5 Centerfielder of All Time.

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by todeen

Lots of collectors call junk wax up through 2000. I like to tell them they are mistaken.

Why do you think they're mistaken? What changed so much in the Baseball card world between 1990 and 2000?

[bnorth]

Originally Posted by Balticfox

Why do you think they're mistaken? What changed so much in the Baseball card world between 1990 and 2000?

One of the things was going from printing millions of base sets to printing millions of limited edition/serial numbered sets/cards. At least that is what I noticed most as a collector back then.

[Balticfox]

To me all those limited edition/serial numbered sets/cards just made sets junkier.

First of all I didn't necessarily like every one of the varied sub components of the issue.

Second it made it extremely difficult to clearly define what constituted a full set.

Meanwhile I was long accustomed to being a set collector. Therefore the above two factors eroded my underlying collecting focus. I ended up using the transition from wax packs with gum to foil packs without gum as my stepping off point from collecting new card releases. Well sort of. But by the early 1990's the card companies certainly necessitated taking a rifle shot approach to collecting new stuff.

[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Even back in 1989, the Ripken was a $50 card. Save for the brief time when very few people knew of the "error", this card has always had value.

The 1989 prices for the card were a temporary bubble due to media hype. By 1991 the "FF*" card was $15-25 in guides and it sat around that range for decades. Only after covid reeled in a ton of new and lapsed junk era collectors did the card get near $50 again, which, like before, was due to a form of media hype.

The FF card is extremely plentiful, having run for 6+ weeks of printing. For perspective, any version of the Randy Johnson card (aside from full blackout) ran for just days, maybe a 2-3 weeks max on some box corrections and a lot of those remain plentiful and cheap in the market.

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by jacksoncoupage

Only after covid reeled in a ton of new and lapsed junk era collectors did the card get near $50 again, which, like before, was due to a form of media hype.

The COVID resurgence was great for those of us sitting on junk wax slabs.

I had stuff sitting around for decades that wasn't even worth trying to sell. It wasn't worth the small amount of liquidity or the time it would take to package and drop at the post office.

All those COVID era collectors that returned to the hobby and wanted all those cards they got rid of or never had as a kid...wow. That $8 card who's price hadn't moved in decades...triple it...more in some cases.

It was nice being able to finally find a home for this stuff that was going unappreciated in a box in the bottom of my closet.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Even back in 1989, the Ripken was a $50 card. Save for the brief time when very few people knew of the "error", this card has always had value.

I don't think there was ANY time when few people knew it was an error.

It was pretty instantaneous. I was set up at a 3 day Mall show when the bomb dropped about this card, and they were selling for $100 right out of the pack. I sold a few myself for that price. People didn't even know if it was going to be pulled from circulation or corrected yet...but they were banking as if it was.

It was pulling other cards up with it to. Griffey Jr. was already hot and the 2nd year Jefferies card and Mattingly card were pretty popular to.

Bottom fell out pretty quickly on these though. Even when they started correcting the FF card, people lost interest I believe, almost as soon as the inaugural Upper Deck issue came out a little while later that year.

[gonefishin]

Regarding the FF card. A couple of years before COVID, I traded a complete sealed box to my friend for lunch at Taco Bell. We sat at the table and he opened the box. He drew 2 of the cards from the one box. We both laughed it off, and he told me "I lost money on that deal!". That's how much value we placed on that card - at that particular point in time.

To those of you that treasure the card, sold the card for a lot of money, or bought the card for a lot of money, that's great. As long as you're the one that's content.

[Eric72]

Yeah, as I wrote, the time was brief. As you know, news traveled differently in 1989. Going into that weekend you mention, there were almost certainly some dealers who did not know.

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

I don't think there was ANY time when few people knew it was an error.

It was pretty instantaneous. I was set up at a 3 day Mall show when the bomb dropped about this card, and they were selling for $100 right out of the pack. I sold a few myself for that price. People didn't even know if it was going to be pulled from circulation or corrected yet...but they were banking as if it was.

It was pulling other cards up with it to. Griffey Jr. was already hot and the 2nd year Jefferies card and Mattingly card were pretty popular to.

Bottom fell out pretty quickly on these though. Even when they started correcting the FF card, people lost interest I believe, almost as soon as the inaugural Upper Deck issue came out a little while later that year.

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Even back in 1989, the Ripken was a $50 card. Save for the brief time when very few people knew of the "error", this card has always had value.

I remember being at my girlfriend's house as a 14-year-old in the spring of '89 and getting a call from my mom who just saw a segment on CNN about the Ripken error. That's how I learned about it. The story was everywhere. There are people who know about the Ripken who don't know anything about the Griffey — I'd say that makes it pretty damn significant.

The people in charge of correcting the Ripken and Johnson had to be smoking crack constantly — their decision-making was truly insane and unexplainable.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Eric72

Yeah, as I wrote, the time was brief. As you know, news traveled differently in 1989. Going into that weekend you mention, there were almost certainly some dealers who did not know.

It was really odd. Back then I was doing local shows every weekend. This was the 1st weekend unopened Fleer product was available for 1989. I don't remember for sure, but I think Fleer beat everyone else to market that year.

When Friday setup started, the dealers who carried the new product started off at about 30 bucks a box and it was all about the Griffey Jr. and 2nd year Jefferies cards. People started noticing the FF cards straight away. You couldn't miss it LOL.

The prices of the FF cards and the unopened product was escalating throughout the weekend. By the time Sunday rolled around, raw FF cards were going for 100 bucks and the boxes were going for 125-150 bucks apiece.

Collation was such, you could get 2 out of a box, or you could get zero out of a box, but the gamble was reasonable you could come out ahead.

Bottom fell out fairly quick though.

[Brent G.]

Is there any chance the Griffey is the most printed card of all time? I read somewhere that 1991 Topps were printed at a rate of 4 million apiece. With the initial '89 UD printing and other nefarious printings that apparently filled 800-count boxes and trunks full of uncut sheets, could it have reached that number? It's definitely the most seen card at shows and the most graded, but I guess that still might not compare to peak junk wax numbers.

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Brent G.

Is there any chance the Griffey is the most printed card of all time? I read somewhere that 1991 Topps were printed at a rate of 4 million apiece. With the initial '89 UD printing and other nefarious printings that apparently filled 800-count boxes and trunks full of uncut sheets, could it have reached that number? It's definitely the most seen card at shows and the most graded, but I guess that still might not compare to peak junk wax numbers.

Even with the extra printings of Griffey, I doubt it comes close to any random card in even the 1987 Topps or 1988-89 Donruss print runs.

Dealers were openly selling 50-100-500 and 1000 count lots of Bonds, McGwire, Mattingly, Ryan, Greenwell, Bo Jackson, etc...from 1987 Topps, just from Vending cases they were breaking up. Forget the wax boxes that were piled up in every nook and cranny of America at the time.

I don't remember much about the 91's. I was pretty much on my way out of the game by then.

Upper Deck was still pretty limited (and much more expensive) compared to the other 3 major players. I'd guess they made more then Score and Sportflics....but literally nobody cared about those 2 brands, even back then (at least for baseball).

I would also guess Upper Deck printed a lot more in 1990, then they did in 1989.

Not to say there wasn't a ton of Upper Deck out there in 1989, and there weren't a lot of extra Griffey's printed...but still nowhere near other issues.

[Brent G.]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

Even with the extra printings of Griffey, I doubt it comes close to any random card in even the 1987 Topps or 1988-89 Donruss print runs.

Dealers were openly selling 50-100-500 and 1000 count lots of Bonds, McGwire, Mattingly, Ryan, Greenwell, Bo Jackson, etc...from 1987 Topps, just from Vending cases they were breaking up. Forget the wax boxes that were piled up in every nook and cranny of America at the time.

I don't remember much about the 91's. I was pretty much on my way out of the game by then.

Upper Deck was still pretty limited (and much more expensive) compared to the other 3 major players. I'd guess they made more then Score and Sportflics....but literally nobody cared about those 2 brands, even back then (at least for baseball).

I would also guess Upper Deck printed a lot more in 1990, then they did in 1989.

Not to say there wasn't a ton of Upper Deck out there in 1989, and there weren't a lot of extra Griffey's printed...but still nowhere near other issues.

Dave, was it the overproduction and the resulting change in the economics what made you get out?

[jacksoncoupage]

Originally Posted by gonefishin

There are a few, but the Billy Ripkin FF and the Marlboro Randy Johnson. I also can't believe how either of these cards are worth more than 10c.

I'm so curious. What's the argument for the Randy Marlboro being a ten cent card?

[Eric72]

Originally Posted by Brent G.

Is there any chance the Griffey is the most printed card of all time? I read somewhere that 1991 Topps were printed at a rate of 4 million apiece. With the initial '89 UD printing and other nefarious printings that apparently filled 800-count boxes and trunks full of uncut sheets, could it have reached that number? It's definitely the most seen card at shows and the most graded, but I guess that still might not compare to peak junk wax numbers.

A non-zero amount of board members would say T206. Of course, most of them have been lost to time.

ETA: the T206 cards have been lost, not necessarily the board members.

[Rich Klein]

To anyone who thinks logically about this in terms of how many cards are extant, then just about any 1986-95 card is overhyped.

But you have to remember that this is not always a logical hobby. There are a lot of people who remember the Bo Jackson Nike campaign or how the Griffey 89UD was a "holy grail" for a lot of young collectors then so they chase them now.

Sometimes the answer is simpler than it seems

Regards
Rich

[D. Bergin]

Originally Posted by Brent G.

Dave, was it the overproduction and the resulting change in the economics what made you get out?

I'm sure it had something to do with it, but it was mostly me being a teenager and turning into an adult at the time, with all of the responsibilities that came with that.

The local shows were also getting pretty stale and listless by that time. Working two jobs, taking college courses and juggling a girlfriend (future wife), didn't make me too excited about setting up at a show and struggling to make table fees on my days off.

I liked busting boxes of new stuff (and old stuff) and trying to make my money back, but also loved oddball older material that nobody else seemed to care about...and I never had any interest in being the "new card dealer", with stacks of expensive and often money losing unopened boxes on my table.

...and I don't think it was really the "overproduction" of the traditional sets that got to me. It was the constant introduction of new issues in all the major sports by all the various companies that eventually killed it for me.

I remember really liking OPC Premier (especially the Hockey) and Stadium Club when they first came out, and then within a year I began to dread when they were coming out again.

Mostly though, life got in the way, and my high school brained plan of making a living being a weekend warrior card show guy, was busted wide open for the bad idea that it was.

[Exhibitman]

When it comes to hype, any junk wax card in a PSA holder would be my choice, especially a 10. I doubt that 1 in 100 of the people who fervently buy 10s could pick a 10 out of a lineup of 9s. There are so many pack-fresh examples of these cards that there is no rational basis for the 10 worship. To quote the great philosopher Gordon Gekko: "The illusion has become real. And the more real it becomes, the more desperate they want it. Capitalism at its finest."

[Balticfox]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

When it comes to hype, any junk wax card in a PSA holder would be my choice, especially a 10. I doubt that 1 in 100 of the people who fervently buy 10s could pick a 10 out of a lineup of 9s. There are so many pack-fresh examples of these cards that there is no rational basis for the 10 worship. To quote the great philosopher Gordon Gekko: "The illusion has become real. And the more real it becomes, the more desperate they want it. Capitalism at its finest."

Truth!

[BioCRN]

Originally Posted by Exhibitman

When it comes to hype, any junk wax card in a PSA holder would be my choice, especially a 10. I doubt that 1 in 100 of the people who fervently buy 10s could pick a 10 out of a lineup of 9s. There are so many pack-fresh examples of these cards that there is no rational basis for the 10 worship.

Any time I've ever graded multiple of anything and it came back a 10, the 10 gets sold and I hang onto the 8 or 9 for the personal collection unless the difference between the 8/9/10 are minimal. When I was looking to buy a card I know is not rare, I'm looking an 8 or 9 unless the 10 is the only option (or the 10 is cheap enough).

I'd rather have the 10 money than the 10 card.