1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth in Heritage

[Rhotchkiss]

Mike, in my experience, expensive cards are treated no different then less expensive cards. I don’t know the seller of the BN Ruth or the facts of this consignment, but I assume it’s a real sale; indeed, if I was the buyer, I would insist it!!

Here is what I think - I think the buyer bought this two years ago for around $7.5mm. I think he decided to sell it and got his ass handed to him.no conspiracies or back room deals.

If you are a big enough boy to plunk down $7.5mm on a card then you gotta be a big enough boy to lose your lunch on a $7.5mm card. Plain and simple.

[puckpaul]

Originally Posted by rhotchkiss

mike, in my experience, expensive cards are treated no different then less expensive cards. I don’t know the seller of the bn ruth or the facts of this consignment, but i assume it’s a real sale; indeed, if i was the buyer, i would insist it!!

Here is what i think - i think the buyer bought this two years ago for around $7.5mm. I think he decided to sell it and got his ass handed to him.no conspiracies or back room deals.

If you are a big enough boy to plunk down $7.5mm on a card then you gotta be a big enough boy to lose your lunch on a $7.5mm card. Plain and simple.

yes

[JollyElm]

A question regarding the multi-million dollar loss on that card, but would a seller be able to take out a pre-auction insurance policy IN CASE it didn't sell for the amount he was looking for?
To indemnify him from having to take an Olympic-pool sized bath??

[raulus]

Originally Posted by JollyElm

A question regarding the multi-million dollar loss on that card, but would a seller be able to take out a pre-auction insurance policy IN CASE it didn't sell for the amount he was looking for?
To indemnify him from having to take an Olympic-pool sized bath??

Does anyone offer insurance policies like this? I realize that just about anything can be insured, but I suspect finding someone to cover this risk would be difficult and/or incredibly expensive.

And if you were really that worried about losing your shirt, then why wouldn’t you just put a reserve on the listing, which I’m pretty sure is free?

[JollyElm]

Originally Posted by raulus

Does anyone offer insurance policies like this? I realize that just about anything can be insured, but I suspect finding someone to cover this risk would be difficult and/or incredibly expensive.

Even if the policy cost a couple million dollars, it would've led to him losing less money. Yowza!

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by Rhotchkiss

Mike, in my experience, expensive cards are treated no different then less expensive cards. I don’t know the seller of the BN Ruth or the facts of this consignment, but I assume it’s a real sale; indeed, if I was the buyer, I would insist it!!

Here is what I think - I think the buyer bought this two years ago for around $7.5mm. I think he decided to sell it and got his ass handed to him.no conspiracies or back room deals.

If you are a big enough boy to plunk down $7.5mm on a card then you gotta be a big enough boy to lose your lunch on a $7.5mm card. Plain and simple.

Agree with most of this here but I think we all know that a consignor and the consignment of a multi-million dollar card or collection is going to be handled and treated entirely differently than a consignor and the consignment of a $1500 card or collection.

As for this Heritage sale, someone from Heritage did post earlier in this thread that the card has no reserve and would be sold but if you read Heritages' rules, they and the consignor can bid on their own consignments.

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Agree with most of this here but I think we all know that a consignor and the consignment of a multi-million dollar card or collection is going to be handled and treated entirely differently than a consignor and the consignment of a $1500 card or collection.

As for this Heritage sale, someone from Heritage did post earlier in this thread that the card has no reserve and would be sold but if you read Heritages' rules, they and the consignor can bid on their own consignments.

I missed this. If that's true, then I would be shocked if the consignor didn't "win" the auction and simply pay the premium (if Heritage even charges the consignor a premium for a card like this).

[BioCRN]

I guess it's worth asking what others got from this auction and the price they expected to pay vs what the hammer ended up being.

I didn't snag any of the big boy bidder cards, but I picked up a couple wins...

I snagged a PSA 3 53 Satch that I "overpaid" by 10%-ish because I really liked how well it presented.

I also snagged a common PSA 3 T204 Ramly that was around current market price.

[Casey2296]

Originally Posted by BioCRN

I guess it's worth asking what others got from this auction and the price they expected to pay vs what the hammer ended up being.

I didn't snag any of the big boy bidder cards, but I picked up a couple wins...

I snagged a PSA 3 53 Satch that I "overpaid" by 10%-ish because I really liked how well it presented.

I also snagged a common PSA 3 T204 Ramly that was around current market price.

I ended up winning the T214 and paid $1200 less than what it sold for last year, happy with the price.

[bcbgcbrcb]

FWIW (probably nothing), I’m in the camp that believes that the Ruth did not change hands. Maybe someone should start a poll on here?

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

I missed this. If that's true, then I would be shocked if the consignor didn't "win" the auction and simply pay the premium (if Heritage even charges the consignor a premium for a card like this).

Exactly it…they pay the BP

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by Johnny630

Exactly it…they pay the BP

and in this case, probably only a portion thereof.

[Johnny630]

Originally Posted by Aquarian Sports Cards

and in this case, probably only a portion thereof.

On a piece like this definitely.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Lorewalker

Agree with most of this here but I think we all know that a consignor and the consignment of a multi-million dollar card or collection is going to be handled and treated entirely differently than a consignor and the consignment of a $1500 card or collection.

As for this Heritage sale, someone from Heritage did post earlier in this thread that the card has no reserve and would be sold but if you read Heritages' rules, they and the consignor can bid on their own consignments.

Consigners can bid on their own lots in Heritage auctions? Which rule states that?

[raulus]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Consigners can bid on their own lots in Heritage auctions? Which rule states that?

See #13:

https://www.ha.com/c/ref/terms-and-conditions

[swarmee]

I don't think the consignor won the card. Because if they had, they would have paid more for it by bidding additional increments in order to price enforce the previous price they paid, right? At least they save face by having the sales price come out within a bid increment of the last sale, and then hold onto it until there are more buyers at that range.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by swarmee

I don't think the consignor won the card. Because if they had, they would have paid more for it by bidding additional increments in order to price enforce the previous price they paid, right? At least they save face by having the sales price come out within a bid increment of the last sale, and then hold onto it until there are more buyers at that range.

I agree. More likely that the consigner received a guaranteed minimum price from Heritage for the card.

[Lorewalker]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I agree. More likely that the consigner received a guaranteed minimum price from Heritage for the card.

Which is what I was told happened with the REA sale as well.

[gunboat82]

Originally Posted by raulus

See #13:

https://www.ha.com/c/ref/terms-and-conditions

I think the link might be broken, so here it is:

Conducting the Auction:

13. Notice of the consignor’s liberty to place bids on his lots in the Auction is hereby made in accordance with Article 2 of the Texas Business and Commercial Code. A “Minimum Bid” is an amount below which the lot will not sell. THE CONSIGNOR OF PROPERTY MAY PLACE WRITTEN “Minimum Bids” ON HIS LOTS IN ADVANCE OF THE AUCTION; ON SUCH LOTS, IF THE HAMMER PRICE DOES NOT MEET THE “Minimum Bid”, THE CONSIGNOR MAY PAY A REDUCED COMMISSION ON THOSE LOTS. “Minimum Bids” are generally posted online several days prior to the Auction closing. Any successful bid placed by a
consignor on his property on the Auction floor, by any means during the live session, or after the “Minimum Bid” for an Auction have been posted, will require the consignor to pay full Buyer’s Premium and Seller’s Commissions on such lot. Auctioneer or its affiliates expressly reserve the right to modify any such bids at any time prior to the hammer based upon data made known to the Auctioneer or its affiliates.

There's also this, which seems pretty broad...

19. Auctioneer reserves the right to rescind the sale in the event of nonpayment, breach of a warranty, disputed ownership, auctioneer’s clerical error or omission in exercising bids and reserves, or for any other reason and in Auctioneer’s sole discretion.

And then there's this...

22. From time to time, the Auctioneer, its affiliates, or their employees may place bids on lots in the Auction.

23. The Auctioneer may extend advances, guarantees, or loans to certain consignors.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Originally Posted by gunboat82

I think the link might be broken, so here it is:



There's also this, which seems pretty broad...



And then there's this...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tN2KHeEWqZM

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by raulus

See #13:

https://www.ha.com/c/ref/terms-and-conditions

So it looks like the consigner can set a hidden reserve pre-auction or bid on his own lots during the auction as long as he pays the full BP plus 10% seller’s commission. My guess is anyone who is bidding on his own lots is having a friend bid in his place.

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Originally Posted by calvindog

Consigners can bid on their own lots in Heritage auctions? Which rule states that?

13

EDIT. I really need to finish reading threads before I post repeat answers.

Just to contribute something slightly new. according to UCC auction law:

§ 2-328 (4) If the auctioneer knowingly receives a bid on the seller's behalf or the seller makes or procures such a bid, and notice has not been given that liberty for such bidding is reserved, the buyer may at his option avoid the sale or take the goods at the price of the last good faith bid prior to the completion of the sale. This subsection shall not apply to any bid at a forced sale.

Of course how the bidder who got shilled is supposed to know it happened is beyond me, disclosed or not, but Heritage absolutely discloses it.