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#1
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: QHN
Can anyone confirm the picture is from Henry Yee's auction a few months back. I remember HY was selling a similar Ruth and he talked about the card being kept in a book and that's what caused the staining, and kept the card fairly sharp-cornered. This new seller has put up alot of stuff from an "estate" sale...but he supposedly lives 15 minutes away so I've asked to see the cards in person. I guess we'll find out soon if he's legit or not. |
#2
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: Kevin Cummings
Don't know about the Ruth, but this same seller has no feedback and is selling 3 vintage cards (two of which, if they are real, are highly desirable), but the Mayo has a white back: |
#3
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: B Hodes
The only white back Mayos I have ever seen are reprints (they are supposed to be black or should at least show signs that there was black paper lost). |
#4
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: leon
It does look sort of "skinned" to me....BUT, the guy has 0 feedback and ALL of his auctions are high end cards....warning, warning......I think making double sure with this seller ( with 0 feedback ) would be prudent.....yes, everyone has to start sometime but verifying never hurts....regards all |
#5
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: David
I'm would not accuse and am not anyone of counterfeiting on this quality alone, but the 1951 Bowman Mickey Mantle has clipped corrners which are describes as 'evenly rounded.' Apparently the most difficult thing in making a counterfeited card or cabinet card is making rounded corners, as many computer print counterfeits have obviously clipped corners. There also appear to be inconsistant white touches to the edges of the back of the card, as if the 'dark grey card stock' was merely printed onto white stock ... Otherwise, the card looks quite vivid and realistic-- though the color tone on Mantle's face don't look quite right. |
#6
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: David
The Cobb bat on shoulder has clipped corners (and anotherwise goofy cut) as well. While genuine cards can (and CDVs often have) have clipped corners, I've never seen a 1951 Mantle with four nearly-neatly trimmed corners-- at on a card least without obvious tape or glue damage indicating it was once in an album. |
#7
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: David
The Old Judge Burdock is a counterfeit. Looking at the auctions, each and every card has at least once one significant problem or otherwise iffy quality. It is my guess that all the cards are counterfeits made on someone's computer printer. |
#8
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: David
While the seller may have him/herself been had, if the seller protests too much, explain to him that, if they are computer prints, the cards can be traced to the computer that printed it. Even if no one's going to seriously look into it, it does makes counterfeiters think twice. I've looked at cases where the counterfeit and the receipt sent with the item were printed on both the same printer and the same paper (Doh!). |
#9
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: Dr.Koos
....Look at the bottom right hand corner in the portraiture. That erasure, half obliterating the tree, is where the vertically positioned word,"REPRINT" used to be. |
#10
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: Bob Lamb
Funny how all the cards have been abused enough to have rounded and clipped corners but not one in the bunch has the first crease.Hmmmm!! I wouldn't touch these auctions with a 39 1/2' pole (Dr. Seuss reference). |
#11
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: Bill Cornell
Look at who the current high bidder is on this no-feedback seller's T206 Red Portrait Cobb: |
#12
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: Julie Vognar
.... |
#13
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: David
As confirmation on my earlier opinion, I checked and the Old Judge Burdock and the T206 Cobb Bat Off are copied from the Library of Congress site. |
#14
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: David
To not miss a detail, sometimes the Oreo cookie effect can also appear with reprints of dark or off white cardstock cards on white cardstock. This is technically different that pasting pieces of paper onto cardstock, but will have the same effect. |
#15
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: David
Okay, just one more thing, I promise. As home computer counterfeiters ordinarilly can't print on normal card stock, their creations often have a slight warping or waveryness where the normal card would not. This is most often noticeable by looking at the top and bottom edges of the cards. I've seen this incosistant warping on numerous online fakes, including an otherwise sharp looking Goudey Ruth who's bottom edge looked like a flag waving in a gentle breeze. |
#16
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: David
You thought I'd have to post one more detail, but I fooled you didn't I? |
#17
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: MW
David -- |
#18
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: David
Michael, I mean no disrespect when I say that you are wrong on both counts. |
#19
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: runscott
all it takes is fine-grain sand-paper and your thumb. I'm always amazed at the stupidy of the forgers who simply cut a curved line around the corners to simulate age. |
#20
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: runscott
Henry asked me to post this for him regarding this auction http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1860440706 |
#21
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: QHN
Well it's been a couple days and I haven't heard back from the seller about my proposal so I guess that clears it up for me. |
#22
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: MW
David -- |
#23
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: David
The halftone printing process, which is still used today to make baseball cards, translates an image (whether photograph, painting, drawing or other) into a pattern of tiny dots both on the printing plate and the resulting print. The process was not introduced commercially until the 1880s, and didn’t work well with lithography until about 1920. The majority of 19th century baseball cards were made with Pre-halftone technology. |
#24
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: MW
According to the majority of sources, halftone printing was first introduced in 1871. To give an example (N167s) where woodcut printing was used shows an exception rather than the rule. EVERY current process used to produce images on baseball cards involves a method by which the image is created from individual dots. This is also true of some 19th century cards and 99% of all 20th century cards. |
#25
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Ebay #1860440706 e121 Ruth
Posted By: David
I aready wrote a lengthy book that covers the history (invention date and beginning of commercial use are usually distant from each other, and this incudes half-tone), usage and identification of printing and photography so will not rehash detais here .... No doubt, there are many areas which you know much more that I, but print and photography history is an area in which I am more than confident. |
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