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#101
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: DJ
This is silly: Why is Bonds a "nasty human being," among the other unflattering adjectives that have been used? What has Bonds done to anybody on this Board? |
#102
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Tim James
The first part of this response reminds me of what was said about Ty Cobb.This issue is unsettling to me,but the guy has done alot for baseball.How many of you guys are willing to discount what Pete Rose has done under accusations that I think are simmilar?Does this "taint" our icons of the game?Cobb's bad behaivior had no effect on his place in history.I know where the discussion would go from here,these guys didn't do what Bonds has"alledgidly" done,but where do you draw the line?Does he deserve a place in the HOF? |
#103
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Chris Counts
It is not my intention to burst the bubble of this board’s Bonds-Haters, who like Bonds-Haters everywhere, seem to clearly be enjoying the latest revelations about Barry’s chemically-induced fitness regimen. No doubt many have waited a long time for this magical moment to dog pile on Barry, and I can’t say he deserves a whole lot less. |
#104
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Mark
Furthermore, it's utterly ridiculous to compare Bonds' personality/behavior to that of Cobb's. |
#105
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Tim James
I was just commenting on DJ's words.I admit that I was trying to spurn debate.Cobb had those same "relations" with his teammates.There are differences between Bond,Cobb,and Rose,but in a historical sence,what is done on the field is what will be on record.Even though PR is banned,his records still stand,and can't be "banned" from the record books. |
#106
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Anson
Cobb was a complete and giant ass. But, I don't think it unfairly changed his ability as a player. |
#107
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Mark
Granted Cobb did not enhance his performance through banned substances, but Bonds was detested based on his personality long before it was known that anyone in MLB had taken steroids. Even in this thread, his personality is challenged, labeling him a "complete jerk" and other attacks on his personality. My point is that, however arrogant and gruff Bonds is, it's even more impolite to stab someone, savagely beat a cripple or choke someone's wife. And none of that stops admiration for Cobb on this forum which to me seems slightly naive and/or hypocritical. |
#108
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
Don't kid yourself into think Cobb didn't cheat in some form. He sharpened his spikes, and lord knows what else in order to give himself an advantage over others. Give his demonor, doing whatever he could get away with is not out of the possibility. I just refuse to believe that the game has ever been "pure" and there has always been cheating of one type or another going on since the first game was played. I also find it laughable that anyone could possible think there was ever time in the game where the game was pure and there was no cheating of any type going on. |
#109
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Jay, somehow I'm not sure that sharpened spikes had quite the same impact on statisitcs as does steroids....Also, I'm not sure that Cobb actually denied doing this. |
#110
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Jason
Maris hit 61 in 1961. So we must assume he roided up that one summer. Maybe that was the real reason his hair fell out. Apparantly he stopped using them after that summer. |
#111
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Actually, Roger Connor was the first reported juicer; until Babe passed him in 1921, the HR mark was shrouded in infamy. I heard he had 3 girlfriends on the side (gave one of them $10 in cash to buy a horse - he had gotten the cash for signing for a whole week at autograph shows and never reported the income), was insanely jealous of Cap Anson, and insisted that none of his teammates talk to him in the dugout. |
#112
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
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#113
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Mike
Interesting item: |
#114
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Brian
Park Name: Lake Front Park (II) |
#115
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
Brian, |
#116
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Anonymous
-- |
#117
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Anson
I can't imagine what would happen if the two ever got to meet each other. |
#118
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Tim James
Wasn't cocaine legal then? No telling how many players,even in the early 1900's abused the drug. |
#119
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: davidcycleback
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#120
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
There has been a misinterpretation regarding what the authors claimed Bonds said in his grand jury testimony, that Bonds said he used steroids but didn't know they were steroids. What he said, it has been cited in many other sources, was that he used a clear substance and a cream, given to him by his trainer, Greg Anderson, who told him they were a flaxseed oil and a balm. The misinterpretation is that he said he used the Clear and the Cream, which are steroid substances. |
#121
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: David
Once again, I find myself here.....as I am sure the important ones of you will too... |
#122
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: David
I guess my point is, you all make great points. Have a great Saturday! |
#123
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Jason
Are you the same batboy from "The Natural?" |
#124
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Anson
Yeah, and what's with the team switching? |
#125
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
No one is saying that Bonds actually took flaxseed oil, etc, but contrary to popular belief, he did not admit to using any sort of steroids in his grand jury testimony. This what the authors and other anti-Bonds people would like everyone to believe, but it is far from the truth. |
#126
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Tim James
I am willing to overlook the issue at hand,the guy has done alot for baseball.We will never know what has gone on behind the scenes in years gone by,but what he has done will be on the record books regardless of the accusations. |
#127
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: davidcycleback
Other than the fact that if pros are required to use dangerous drugs to play, then 16 and 17 year olds will be required to use dangerous drugs to play in college and the minors (which in an of itself is reason to ban steroids in the bigs)-- the main problem I have against steroids is that I watch sports to watch humans compete as humans. I don't watch sports to watch robots or aliens or labratory mutants compete. The idea of watching a game where 30% of the performance and 75 feet of the home run and 25 percent of the muscle is due to human or bovine grown hormone or labratory injects doesn't appeal to me. This may appeal to the Fox Sports and video game generation, but it doesn't appeal to me. |
#128
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: DJ
Didn't Adam J. have the record for longest thread? As things unfold, and Leon doesn't get sick of this being bounced to the top, this may reach the two hundred thread mark in the upcoming weeks. |
#129
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
The current record holder of longest thread is the "soak and trim" thread that exceeded 200 posts. |
#130
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Jason
Kids will be using steroids to cheat in sports because they have to find a way. They are too lazy to work hard for it and too impatient to put in the time. Our society has made it that way. The level of baseball is nausiating nowadays. The level of high school and college kids really sucks to even when I played 10 years ago at that level. The pros are a joke and about 60% of the Major Leaguers would be good college players in my time. The whole sport has suffered and the players just keep getting worse. Makes me think I should make a comeback in my early 30s. |
#131
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
Just read a great quote, "if you are outraged that a player enhances his performance by using steroids, then why aren't you outraged by a pitcher who has Tommy John surgery and comes back throwing harder than ever? Or how about lasik to improve your eyesight?" |
#132
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Tom Boblitt
you can't go to prison for elective surgery. You can, and should, for illegal steroid use. Apples and oranges......... |
#133
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Brian
Did anyone catch Saturday Night Live? |
#134
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Al Crisafulli
I read all Barry Bonds threads on the collecting boards with great interest. I've got to say that I agree with Jay on this. |
#135
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Anonymous
Al: your last sentence, I think, summarizes the problem with Barry ... but for the alleged (yeah, right) steroid use, he would not be considered one of the top 3 or 4. Most people have serious problems with that. |
#136
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Al Crisafulli
Good points all, but I forgot to mention one thing about baseball that has probably seen the biggest change of all: the media. |
#137
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Anson
Bonds has always been a hall of fame talent. However, his "top 3 or 4" of all-time status didn't develop until the alleged steroid use. Take at look at his numbers and watch the sudden jump. Again, I remind you that he is the ONLY ATHLETE in ANY SPORT to ever get significantly better after his 36th birthday. Mr. Bonds is not a fine bottle of wine. |
#138
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: davidcycleback
I agree with that point. Before he started taking steroids (yes, I'm jumping to the conclusion that he took steroids), Bonds was considered a Hall of Fame quality player-- not as as good as, say, Willie Mays, but a great 5-tool player. Most considered Ken Griffy Jr. to be the superior talent and, by the way, home run hitter. It wasn't until after Bonds started taking steroids that sports writers and fans started calling him the best or one of the best ever. No one who today calls Bonds the best ever considered him the best ever before he took steroids. |
#139
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
An exception does not prove a rule. Someone has to be first. And in sports, all it takes is that first and then, all of the sudden, others are able to do it. |
#140
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Anson
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Lasik surgery is done to correct eyes, not enhance them. Also, I'm not sure anyone has gone through Tommy John surgery to "enhance" their pitching arm. Usually they're repairing it because it was blown out. While a few might come back and throw better than they had previously, a lot never return to form. Theoretically, the ones that succeed may do so due to a solid rehab and development training program. |
#141
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: davidcycleback
Jay, I don't think players should take steroids. I also do not think players should have implanted muscles, I don't think pitchers should use the spit ball, I think it's unfair for park owners to alters the fences or wind machine to favor their players or I'm against players cheating at cards in the clubhouse. |
#142
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
Lasik improves your eyesight. Eyesight is one, if not the most important things a batter needs. You need a fair amount of muscle mass to be able to hit HRs. Why shouldn't someone that has trouble putting on muscle mass be able to use steroids to correct a physialogial problem that won't let them put on a lot of mass when they can do somethign enhance their eyesight? Where do you draw the line as to what is an acceptable enchancement and what isn't? Is the defining line when the enhancement allows to chase hallowed records? No one is too worried about pitchers on steroids, but they howl bloody murder about batters using them. That is basically what it has boiled down to and it's utterly rediculous. |
#143
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: davidcycleback
Jay, many of your competition and other types of cheating in different types are worthwhile. While I am still and will be against players using steroids, I consider your points legitimate. |
#144
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: identify7
Following the 1994 baseball strike, which among other things, robbed fans of the World Series; baseball game attendence was way down, and worse - TV Ratings were too. And they stayed down until the unbelievable 1998 Sosa/McGwire season. |
#145
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
Steroids have been around a long time. Even when I graduated in 1981, I knew that if I took steroids, I stood a better chance of being bigger and stronger and getting a college scholarship. I chose not to do it because it was anethema to the health kick I was on at the time. I'm sure the pressures today at the HS level are much greater than when I went to school. All you have to look is look at the kids today playing football and there is no doubt that steroids are heavily used in HS today. It was the rare kid that weighed in at 250 when I was a kid, and he was usually just fat. Today, you ahve HS teams sporting offensive and defensive linemen that would make college teams from the 70s look like a Pop Warner team. I lived in the Bay Area, got to watch and had a roommate that for the DeLasalle HS. That team could easily play at the college level with the size and talent they had. My roommate said steroids were regular part of training. If you didn't use, you most likely weren't going to make the team. |
#146
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: davidcycleback
For me, a simple cuttoff for what is allowable and not allowable are the rules for the game. While the rules in baseball could be that a base runner does not have to touch the base to be safe, the rules are that he has to touch base to be safe. While the rule could have been written that a runner can run straight from second base to home, the rules say he is out he he does this. |
#147
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Anson
Steroids can account for a lot more home runs. Easily handled fly outs are now clearing the fence. Also, in regards to average, ground balls and line drives have more on them. No, steroids don't help with hand-eye coordination. But, a talented athlete like Bonds, who is quite capable of putting the bat on the ball, now can stretch his hits harder and further. He earns a reputation for being able to crush the ball 60+ a year and it causes pitchers to intentionally walk him more, raising his OBP. I can go on... |
#148
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: Joe_G.
I usually avoid the O/T posts, but this is too much to take. |
#149
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: jay behrens
I'd love to see sports played on pure atheltic ability, but that will never happen. I'm a realist, and realize that that people always have and always will cheat, especially when the rewards are so huge in todays society. Pretty much everyone that starrts using steroids knows the risks. Sports need to quit trying to be puritaical and just let people do whatever they want in order to compete. Bodybuilding tried to do a steroid free competition but that failed miserabley because people start cheating there too. |
#150
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Bonds exposed: Shadows details superstar slugger's steroid use
Posted By: warshawlaw
didn't we have a memo stating that taking steroids illegally was a violation of the rules of baseball? For that reason alone, none of the justifications for Bobnds' actions work. He broke the rules, he should not be in the HOF, period. Pete Rose put it best in an interview this weekend on Bill Maher's show, stating that any elite player already has great hand-eye coordination but if you can add beef to that player's physique the added strength will let him drive the ball farther each time he hits it. |
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