T206 Super Set

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

Lee B.

I haven't had a chance to thoroughly look at the current results, but my question
for you......are these SC350's you are referring to primarily from the 150/350 series ?
Or from the 350/360 series ? It makes a big differnce in answering your initial query.

And, I might add......that just this morning I emailed Bill with a bunch of P350 cards
(from the 150/350 Series) that were not on his Spread Sheet. These come to mind....
Dahlen (Boston), Ganley, Mullin (horiz), Tinker (hands/knees), etc.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Ted & Lee,
Keep in mind that we are talking about "possibile combinations", not confirmed. The cards were Not released as a set, but were regionally distributed by the brand's popularity. The 350 series is probably the best example of this, as each region of the country received minor league cards of teams in there area, hence no Southern Leaguers were sent to the Northeast, and no Buffalo players ended up in the South.
Also keep in mind, that Sweet Caps were very popular in the Metro areas of the east and midwest, but not nearly as popular in the rural markets. Piedmont on the other hand had widespread popularity throughout the country, and was the more dominant brand. Sales figures will probably show the 2 were very similiar in sales numbers, but most of the Sweet Cap numbers came from the large Metro areas in the East, versus Piedmont which was sold everywhere.
Sorry for rambling, but they didn't put Southern Leaguers in Sweet Cap packs because not enough of them were sold in the South.

Be well Brian

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

BRIAN W.

Don't be apologetic for your "ramblings". You just very succinctly described how these
cardboard "gems" were distributed throughout the country

This was really confirmed to me in the recent 400+ T206's that I acquired from an original
collection from South Carolina. Believe it or not, but 99% of the T206's are Piedmont cards.
Approx. 60% from the 150/350 Series..39% from the 350/460 Series..1% from the 460-only Series.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Ted,
Quit stealing my cards!!!! The Carolina's belong to me, and Virginia too for that matter. Keep your find's above the mason-dixon, heck there are enough in PA for everybody. Be well Brian


PS Congrats on the "find". What condition were the cards in? And where in SC did you swipe them from???

[Archive]

Posted By: Lee Behrens

Ted, most of the cards that do not have a Pied 350 have only a SC 350 at this date.

Lee

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

BRIAN W.

The fellow who I bought the cards from is not in the Carolina's. This was an original
collection of his Grandfather, who grew up in SC. I would not dare to "carpetbag" in
your domain.

Approx. 67% of the cards are Ex and 25% Vg/Ex and the rest Vg (or less). No Cobb's,
but Hofers like Matty, Joss, Jennings LaJoie, Tinker-Evers-Chance, etc.,etc.

And, finally I have a decent Magee with a P150 back. Also, in this collection are some
E-cards. As, I said earlier, these cards appear to be from an early production run, based
on the majority Piedmont 150 backs; and, only 5 - 460 only backs.

Incidently, 40 of the So Lgers are OLD MILL.....I think that "jives" with what we would
expect from an early Piedmont collection. The P350 So Lgers came later in the
game......correct?

[Archive]

Posted By: Martin Neal

Brian,
I thought I was the only one in Virginia? I think there is plenty here also.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Martin,
I would agree VA is full of T206's, but I haven't been lucky enough to uncover any "finds" there in a few years. I will keep looking though.

Be well Brian


PS I claim any state that a family member owns land in, so I claim most of the states..... and that includes Texas Moderator Dude.

[Archive]

Posted By: Martin Neal

Hi Brian, fellow Tar Heel
There is one find in Richmond that I know of. He dug out 85 t206s and t205s out of a trashcan. His uncle had thrown them away. There were in the attic of his uncle's grandfather's house and one of his relatives had just tossed them. I purchased about half of them, mostly the t205s, but I did get a t206 vg Cobb and a t206 ex Young with glove. He told me he would sell the rest to me later. Well, 18 months later and about 10 unanswered emails, I guess he has decided to keep the rest. I wish I had gotten the Mathewson black hat (probably ex) from him when I had the chance.
Do you ever get to the Outer Banks? Got alot of family there, it would be a great place to meet and talk vintage cards.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Martin,
I feel your pain, I've been working on a guy in Western NC for a few years now that has close to 1000 T and E cards from his Grandfathers estate. His brother sold his portion a few years ago(600 cards), but this guy just won't bite. I'm assuming his half of the collection is as nice as his brother's which were almost all EX to NM. Some of them are sitting in NM/MT holders in my personal collection.
It's funny you mention the OB, I was fishing for Marlin out of Hatteras at the end of July. I don't get out there as much as I did when I was at the Hill, but do go fishing a few times in June and July. I will keep you in mind for next year, as there is always room for one more on the boat and plenty of Cold Beer to go around.

Be well Brian


PS Find me a few Lone Jack's since you live in VA

[Archive]

Posted By: barry arnold

Brian W.

Fellow Davidson alumnus,N54 Tim Newcomb , mentioned to me some weeks back
that there's a Davidson prof. who has a fabulous 206 collection.
You'll have to share North Carolina with him.
Prof. Manning, I believe.

Continue the exposition and analysis TRex. It continues to be fascinating.

best,

barry

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave

I have a similar experience to Ted's. I started my T206 set from a large single lot, collected originally in Fredericksburg, VA. Of 504 cards, all were Piedmont with the exception of 4 Old Mills.

There are about 100 duplicates, so this was missing about 120.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

LEE

I looked at Bill's data and I am trying to understand what you are saying ?

Comparing the Piedmont 350 data with Sweet Cap 350 (Factory 25-VA) data (re-
member all Piedmont 150 and 350 cards are Factory 25 in VA), I see 433 - P350
cards to only 170 - SC350/25 cards.

Do you see why I don't understand what you are referring to ?

As Brian W. was telling us the Piedmont Tobacco brand was overwhelming preferred
by Southerners. And, indeed the Piedmont Factories were located in VA and NC (the
heart of tobacco country); therefore, it's not a stretch to believe that the Piedmont
T206's not only were 1st.....but I would bet that there were many more of them pro-
duced than any other brand of T206's.

T-Rex TED

[Archive]

Posted By: Lee Behrens

Ted,

Check out these cards they only have came in SC 350 fact 30, in the 350 series in the latest update. These cards all have 150 series cards, not sure if that is where your confusion is, but the Piedmont premisie theory was based on the 150 that appear to have only Piedmont 350's , but the also appears to be SC 350 only's in fact 30's.

Bradley Port
H. Davis
Doolin Port
Doyle Throwing
Griffith, Port
Jordan, Port
Lajioe, Throwing
Sullivan
Wilhelm, Pitch

Plus there are a couple more that have only SC 350 backs. That is the evidence of what is going on with the SC 350 only.

*Edited to eliminate the latest noted Pied 350.

Lee

[Archive]

Posted By: Elliot

I agree with Lee that this deserves more research. Although I have been negligent with providing Bill with my front/back data, I have Gibson, Hahn, and Herzog (Giants) with a Piedmont 350 back so those can be eliminated from Lee's list.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

LEE B.

Scot Reader's extensive survey (10,000's of cards) shows 2 - Lajoie (throwing) with
Piedmont 350 backs.

Lee, you are just looking at Bill's Spread Sheet (SS); and, while this is a really great
start to gather all the front/back permutations in the T206 set, it is far from being
conclusive. He only has 3000+ inputs at this point and I wish more Forum members
would provide him inputs from their collections.
With all the T206 "power" represented on this Forum, there is no excuse why Bill's SS
cannot be filled up with at least 10,000+ inputs......come on guys let's do it !

My research on these T206 backs has been the result of studying 4 different surveys,
which combined include approx. 17,000+ cards from this set.

I have to run out this AM.....but when I return later today I will provide you data on
all the T206's on your list.

Best Regards, TED Z

P.S.....I have a Lobert....P350.

[Archive]

Posted By: Brian Weisner

Hi Lee,
I don't have an updated sheet, but will check my other info on known cards and get back with you. There's no doubt, that as the ATC cranked out more brands and more Cigs at factory 25, that they moved a lot of the Sweet Cap production to other factories, which probably explains the shortage of Sweet Cap cards from this factory. They were also inserted T58 fish cards in Sweet Cap packs here, so that may have also cut down on T206 numbers.
Again, I don't think the ATC gave a lot of thought to distributing a certain number of poses with each possible back, so we will probably find more anomalies as we go forward.

Talk to you soon Brian

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

LEE B.

Two more you can scratch off your list.....

I have a Bradley (portrait) with a Piedmont 350 back.

In the EPDG Thread....Tom Boblitt reported having a Doyle
(throwing) with a P350 back.

Next, I will be posting my other findings on the cards
remaining on your list.

T-Rex TED

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

From 3 different surveys, here is the data of the confirmed backs of the above
listed 10 - T206's in the 150/350 Series......

Player.............P350....Sov350....SC350

Bradley (port)......5..........0.........1

H. Davis..............0..........0.........2

Doyle (throw).......1..........0.........1

Griffith (port)........7..........0.........5

Jordan (port)........2..........0.........0

Lajoie (throw).......2..........0.........2

Lobert.................1..........0.........1

Sullivan................3..........1.........1

Wilhelm (pitch)......0..........0.........2


LEE....H. Davis and Wilhelm....presently, have NOT been reported with P350 backs.

So, let's run another survey......and ask the T206 guys on this Forum to check-out
the backs of their cards and report to us on this Thread......

H. Davis.............?

Wilhelm (pitch)....?

[Archive]

Posted By: Drew

Ted
H Davis SC 350
Wilhelm P 150


Drew

[Archive]

Posted By: barry arnold

trex et al,

H davis sweet cap 150

wilhelm pitch pied 150

keep up the great analyses

best,

barry

[Archive]

Posted By: Ed McCollum

H. Davis Piedmont 150

Wilhelm (batting) Polar Bear

[Archive]

Posted By: Bill

Data from the Super Set:

Davis: Piedmont 150, SC 150 Fac 25, SC 150 Fac 30, SC 150 Fac 649, Hindu, and SC 350 Fac 30

Wilhelm Hands at Chest: Piedmont 150, Sovereign 150, SC 150 Fac 30, SC 150 Fac 649, Hindu, and SC 350 Fac 30

Bill

[Archive]

Posted By: Scot Reader

Ted, Lee:

There is a Davis (H. on Front) Piedmont 350 on eBay right now.

http://cgi.ebay.com/1909-1911-T206-Harry-Davis-Philadelphia-H-Davis-Front_W0QQitemZ320024670049QQihZ011QQcategoryZ8684 1QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I guess that just leaves Wilhelm (Hands at Chest) without Piedmont 350.

Scot

[Archive]

Posted By: Ted Zanidakis

From 3 different surveys, here is the data of the confirmed backs of the above
listed 10 - T206's in the 150/350 Series......

Player.............P350....Sov350....SC350

Bradley (port)......5..........0.........1

H. Davis..............1..........0.........2

Doyle (throw).......1..........0.........1

Griffith (port)........7..........0.........5

Jordan (port)........2..........0.........0

Lajoie (throw).......2..........0.........2

Lobert.................1..........0.........1

Sullivan................3..........1.........1

Wilhelm................0..........0.........2
(hands/chest)



Just what we need....another survey....OK, you T206 guys on this Forum, check-out
the backs of your cards and report to us on this Thread......

And, now we have just one left standing......

Wilhelm (hands/chest)....?


THANKS SCOT......you keep disovering these elusive P350 cards.....you sure are some "super sleuth".

Best Regards......T-Rex TED

[Archive]

Posted By: Larrie Dean

Add Bradley Sweet Caporal 350 (1)
Griffith (portrait) Piedmont 150 (2)
Griffith (portrait) Sweet Caporal 150 (1)

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim Rivera

Lee-Ted

Not sure how this fits but Doolin portrait
backs I have
Piedmont 150
Sweet Cap 350 factorey 25
Sweet cap 150 factory 25

Sweet Caporal Factory 25 is more difficult than what most think.But still can be found on ebay.The order of difficulty is 350/460 than 150 and the easiest is 350.

[Archive]

Posted By: Lee Behrens

Here is mine:

Pied 150:
Bradly, H. Davis, Doyle, Griffith, Wwilhelm

SC 150 30:
Jordan, Sullivan

SC 150 25:
Lobert

SC150 649:
Lajoie

SC 350, 30:
Sullivan

Lee

[Archive]

Posted By: jackgoodman

Bill,

Just ran across a stray sitting in another box of cards (ok, so I'm not that organized), but wanted to add it to the super set list:

Kleinow - Boston, Tolstoi back

Thanks.

[KLSDAD]

Can I get a copy of the most recent spreadsheet from someone? I had one once and then lost it. My roughly 1100 were logged on it so it will be fun to start over!

Chuck

[brianp-beme]

I believe a link to it can be found in this llnk:

http://t206resource.com/BlankChecklist.html

Brian (always willing to link links)

[KLSDAD]

Originally Posted by brianp-beme

I believe a link to it can be found in this llnk:

http://t206resource.com/BlankChecklist.html

Brian (always willing to link links)

Thanks !!