Johnson 8 (hands at chest) in Mastro's

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Posted By: T206Collector

[Paul, if the Johnson above is "presumptively trimmed" why will it sell for 11K?]

I think you answered your own question -- "There is such a huge market for these cards in high grade that people will buy them, period. And why else would you be up all night worried if these cards were trimmed other than your concern that they are worthless and not sell? Trust me, they will sell and you'll sleep like a baby."

It really only takes two people that think PSA is always right to bid a card up to whatever they're willing to pay for it. I don't think the price two or more people are willing to pay is evidence one way or another about the grade of the card.

[I think Jeff is correct that once a card is slabbed it will sell no matter what.]

Agreed, but not my point. I am more concerned about "the majority [that] won't even question them." If the answer is that they won't question it because they can resell it, then I think that's flawed reasoning -- especially from collectors that pride themselves of really high grade cards. That is, don't high grade collectors care first and foremost about having the mintiest card ever? The answers in this thread are that they're more concerned about the resale value.


[What about important highgrade T206 HOFs like Matty portraits in SGC 80? Should we presume they are trimmed unless varified by all three grading companies.]

I had my Matt T206 portrait graded a 6 by PSA and an 80 by SGC. I think that is sufficient to remove all doubt I had. I leave it open to anyone with high grade cards if they want to have GAI or BVG have a go at them as well. But at some point, I think dual or tri grading would be an interesting study of high grade pre-war cards.

[Since when do we presume guilt in this country.]

Presumptions of innocent in criminal trials are much different than the odds of a piece of cardboard with snow white borders surviving 100 years in immaculate condition without a little help. There are a lot of trimmed cards out there -- and the stories that I read on this Board 4 or 5 years ago when I began collecting T206 earnestly were that dealers were forking over huge figures to secure oversized T206 cards that could be shaved down to fit nicely into high grade PSA holders. Haven't you heard those stories? Don't high grade collectors care about those stories?

[Sure some trimmed cards have made their way into holders (of all three of the big grading companies), but I would guess it is far less than 1% and that is not enough to presume guilt in my book.]

Your guess is as good as mine -- that is why I want to have an experiment. If after we send 150 PSA 8 T206 cards to SGC under 2 (i.e. 1%) come back as trimmed, then I would say the presumption is unwarranted. But what if 15 came back trimmed? Is it unreasonable to believe that 15 of 150 PSA 8 T206 cards would not be crossed over into an SGC holder because of evidence of trimming? You know who I bet has the answer to that question? The graders at SGC who see a whole boat load of PSA cards all the time. They'd have the answer that question....

And I'm not slamming PSA. If you want to start with 150 SGC 80+ T206 cards and have PSA have a go at them, I'd be interested in that study, too.