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#1
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Damian Anderson
http://cgi.ebay.com/1911-T206-WHITE-BORDER-NAP-LAJOIE-THROWING-PSA-MINT-9_W0QQitemZ230092885193QQihZ013QQcategoryZ31718QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem> |
#2
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Dan Bretta
I would think if someone put this in a book that went untouched for 90+ years it could be possible although I would think it would have to be in a book against a photo and onion skin paper or something like that because the acid in the papers would react with one another. Or maybe in a glassine envelope??? |
#3
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Judge Dred (Fred)
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#4
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: MVSNYC
well, being a former T206 PSA 9 "buyer"...i can tell you these cards look amazing in person...my guess also is maybe the card was in the middle of a book or just simply untouched in a drawer...either way it is truly incredible how these cards have survived in such shape... |
#5
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Rhys
In the middle of a book is probably right. Most likely a scrapbook with water soluable glue all over the back of it at one time. That is basically the only way corners can stay sharpe like that for almost 100 years. Maybe not, but probably so. |
#6
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: barrysloate
Michael- given that this card is Mint, is perfectly centered, in perfect register, and has bright colors, why wouldn't it be a 10? How is it any worse than your Pastorius, if not every bit as good? |
#7
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: jeffdrum
Barry, |
#8
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: barrysloate
Perhaps, but I would like to know how a "10" is determined. To me a "9" and a "10" are indistinguishable, yet the "10" might sell for triple or quadruple the price. |
#9
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: dan mckee
The card is worth a few hundred dollars to a collector, the label is worth $18,200.00. |
#10
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: MVSNYC
this sounds crazy, but when you see an 8, then a 9, then a 10...you can actually notice a difference with the naked eye...when you get into 9's & 10's...they just are absolute blazers...the image clarity, corners, borders, etc...just jump right at you... |
#11
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: dennis
dan, good one. barry, i thought you couldn't tell the 8's from the 9's? |
#12
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: barrysloate
Michael- I know it is tough to judge by a scan, but do you see any imperfections on that T206 Lajoie? I don't see anything wrong with it. |
#13
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
I think that the difference between an 8 and a 9 is usually one of centering. On the few vintage 10s that I have had, honestly, there is no difference in the corners, just a slightly better centering if anything. The truth is there is a much larger difference between a 7 and an 8 than there is between an 8 and a 10 in my opinion.... |
#14
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: MVSNYC
barry, i am super critical...it is very sharp, don't get me wrong, but it is centered alittle to the right, and it is tuff to tell how perfectly sharp the corners are... |
#15
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: MVSNYC
jeff, i have to say that i think the most important factor is sharpness of corners, they (PSA) seem to allow a bit more for slightly off center cards vs. frayed corners...if you remember, the 10 is not perfectly centered, but you cut kill someone with the corners... |
#16
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: T206Collector
...who sees the chip of paint missing from the grass? It's either that or a spot of blue that doesn't belong there. |
#17
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: barrysloate
I know Michael- the "10" you showed us had impeccable corners, but the front was maybe 55/45 and the back was noticeably off center. I always assumed a card like that could not grade higher than a 9, and that to get a "10" you needed everything to be just right. Again, just trying to understand the criteria. |
#18
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Steve f
Golly, it's pretty... May be the doggy pee spot on the grass or the loss of yellow at the top border keeping it down. The back looks near perfect. |
#19
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Mike
8, 9, or 10, it's a beauty. I'd sure like it my office. It sure is striking, when compared to tens of thousands of 2's and 3's we've all seen daily for the last 20 years. Gorgeous !!! |
#20
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: barrysloate
I do see the blue spot just to the left of his hip- is that what cost it a "10"? Again, I have no idea how they evaluate at this level. |
#21
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: E, Daniel
That card's registration is killer. |
#22
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: robert a
Damian. |
#23
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: MVSNYC
barry- yeah, it is off center a tad bit on the front and more so on the back, again, i'm assuming the rest of the cards amazing attributes were enough to keep it a 10... |
#24
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Lee Behrens
I also am curious about the paint chip in the grass, shouldn't thtat knock it down to a 7? It is fun picking apart a beautiful card, kind of like watching the Miss America pagent. |
#25
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: MVSNYC
looks like a printing blemish, in which case that is acceptable by PSA even at such a lofty grade. |
#26
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Damian Anderson
that this card was unaltered, but after looking at the scan again that bottom edge sure seems peculiar to me. Does anyway else see the waviness of it against the inside of the holder? Hhmmm, I wonder if... |
#27
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
I don't think it's trimmed. Look at the scan of the back; it's a slight diamond cut. |
#28
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: MVSNYC
c'mon guys...i love this conspiracy that any card in an 8 or 9 holder has to be altered... |
#29
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: MVSNYC
delete |
#30
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Damian Anderson
I think you dudes is right now that I look again and I agree that it is not trimmed. Not waviness but a tilt on the bottom. Still in school on these matters. Maybe the diamond cut is the reason for the 9 and not a 10 as discussed previously in the thread. Thanks to all who have posted directly in reference to original questions and the "scenic route" it took with these card and in regards to this post. I don't know why, but I didn't consider the book theory, however I still am astounded that the card wasn't handled at least a little between pack and scrapbook or at least in the process of putting it in the scrap book. |
#31
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: quan
beautiful card with one spot of printing defect, but if it doesn't cross to at least an sgc60 then it's clearly altered. at least 80% of prewar cards in psa4+ holders are problematic. |
#32
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: MVSNYC
"Maybe the diamond cut is the reason for the 9 and not a 10 as discussed previously in the thread."... |
#33
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Us "old farts, dinosaurs, or whatever you call us" just laugh at the absurdity of paying 18K |
#34
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: cmoking
it's all perspective guys. the starving boy in a poor village in a third-world country could get the medicine and the food he needs to survive for less than $1 a day. what do you think he thinks about paying $20,000 for 500 small pieces of cardboard, regardless of how pretty and historic they are? he'd probably puke at the thought. |
#35
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: barrysloate
Ted- there are two different hobbies going on right now, one for the very rich, and another for the rest of us. They have little in common. |
#36
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
I would divide the hobby into three segments..... |
#37
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
First, you asked...... |
#38
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: barrysloate
Ted- your three tier analysis is good, and I agree with helping one's family. |
#39
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Mike
My step father kicked me out of the house three days after grduating from high school. Had no car, no job, and no money. Only what what I was wearing. Hitchhiked into town, met a friend, rented an apartment, jot a job. Put myself through school...got married, put two kids through college. Worked hard for 25 years, invested correctly. Retired and started my own successful real estate investment comp. I also devote a couple days a week for charitable work. So, please don't lay the guilt on us about some body on the other side of the earth. i also am part of a group who finance digging fresh water wells in haiti. If I want to spend 5 grand on a baseball card, I feel I've earned the right. Anyone disagree? And by the way, I pay a ton of Taxes. |
#40
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: T E
One way I know of is from untouched estates, which are growing rarer but still exist. I bought out the paper contents of one such place in New England a few years ago and opened a box from the attic that had been buried away only to find several 19th century t cards-only one was baseball. It looked like the original owner had stuck them in this box right after pulling them. Probably had little interest in the cards, was just putting them aside and forgot about them. |
#41
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: leon
First of all that Lajoie is a beautiful card. I am one of the collectors that find it hard to believe that cards that are 100 years old stay in this condition. I do think it can happen but just find it hard to believe. I would bet my right arm (I am left handed ) that not all T206 PSA 8's-PSA 10's are untainted. I think a lot of them are.... |
#42
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: barrysloate
Mike- I think there is enough to go around and I don't suggest anyone should feel guilty about buying baseball cards. We can all treat ourselves to whatever we want from the money we earn, but there's always a place for charity. I for one make very few charitable contributions, and feel a bad about it, so I was happy to donate to the board effort. Wish I was able to do more. |
#43
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Ted Zanidakis
Well you know....I for one am not "crazy" about perfectly square corners on little pieces of cardboard. |
#44
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: barrysloate
Yes- America does help the rest of the world and that is one of our great virtues. But I don't want this thread to get political and turn into train wreck Monday, especially on President's Day. |
#45
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Mike
No problem Barry. One of the things an attorney told me 15 years ago, or so, was that after he retired, he wanted to spend his time doing charitable work. I always remembered that. I thought what a neat thing that would be. And I guess it gives one, a goal to shoot for, besides all the other things we shoot for in our country. For whatever reason, things have worked out for my family. I retired from commercial banking at 50 years old, and now do my own thing. I have spent the last three years or so, doing a lot of charitable work, and giving more time to my church, which I dearly love. Also I told my wife many years ago, that if and when, we were able to give sizable sums of money, to charity, that we would, And we have. But to get back on track, I absolutely love baseball, it's history, it's strategy. etc. etc. i love history as well. My thousands of baseball items, have been willed to my son. Who also loves baseball. Out of the thousands of cards, photos and ephemera, I think I sold maybe 6 things. You know how sometimes we get emotional, and buy things that really don't fit our long term strategies? Well, I do that some time also. But...people in here shouldn't take pot shots, and generalize about people that they don't know, and will never meet. Lets talk about "Old cardBoard". |
#46
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: barrysloate
Hey Mike- it's President's Day- if you want to feel a little patriotic, go for it! There's room for charity, for family, and for possessions in everyone's life. I say find the right balance, and the rest will take care of itself. |
#47
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Mike
Thanks Barry....I've tried to get to the last few nationals...this Fall my daughter is getting married, so i don't know if I will make it this year either. but if I do, beers are on me....Have a wonderful Presidents day !!! |
#48
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: cmoking
Ted, when did I say you or I were responsible for that kid? It's all about perspective. That kid thinks you are nuts for spending the kind of money you do. You think the guy buying a $20K PSA 9 T206 card is nuts. What makes you or that kid correct? I am saying NEITHER of you are right. It's all about a matter of perspective. |
#49
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: E, Daniel
I understood the analogy King made perfectly well in his first post, and am surprised anyone else struggled to.....it is of course one every member of the board keeps in mind as they post. Be proud of what you know and are able to share or display, and remember always that another collector looking on is probably not in the same position to purchase such wonderful cards. For a person to be 'stunned' by large money being thrown at a single card, only to establish they throw large money at many cards, is less than sensitive to the concept. The idea of a third person looking on with almost nothing to their name and being slightly sickened by either practice is completely logical, whether living here in the States or in some other country. |
#50
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How does a card like this survive?
Posted By: Joann
Wow - Leon put it just perfectly when describing the investor/collector balance that exists within many of us. To paraphrase - if my cards all went back down to what I paid for them I'd be happy, but if they went to zero I'd be unhappy. |
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