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#101
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Posted By: peter chao
I had a very nice 1969 White Letter Mantle in excellent condition and asked this guy from Memory Lane about how much it would sell for at auction. The guy told me, I have no idea about the price of low grade stuff, we seldom auction those kind of cards. Well...excuuuuuuuuuuse me. |
#102
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Posted By: James Feagin
An ex-con who scammed old people out of money shill an auction? Of course not! |
#103
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
PSA has just shut down the third thread on the latest Memory Lane debacle. |
#104
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Posted By: ScottIngold
What gets me is that people will still defend PSA. I know nothings proven But this is only one of many questionable issue's that have cropped up. One of the most troubling is the fact that anything negative brought up on the CU boards is quickly deleted. Why ? |
#105
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Posted By: Kevin Saucier
<You could not possibly foist off that many inferior Goudeys on unsuspecting buyers, and most all the slabs look fine besides.> |
#106
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Posted By: Cat
Could this be another WIWAG debacle for PSA? I had $8K worth of cards wrapped up in that mess. Dave Vargha, I believe, is our resident expert as to what happened to the WIWAG threads on the CU board. I think Vargha has described on several occasions how those posts, too, disappeared. |
#107
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Posted By: chris
But, what is WIWAG? |
#108
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Posted By: Fred C
WIWAG (When It Was A Game) were two guys that used to replace higher grade PSA cards with lower graded cards. They were convicted for their wrong doing. |
#109
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Posted By: Cat
WIWAG (When It Was A Game) was a dealer (more than one guy) from San Diego County, California. They would have high grade cards slabbed by PSA (mine were all PSA 8 cards) and in some fashion had figured out a mechanism to extract the card from the holder insert a lesser card (I believe they used a new holder but the actual PSA flip) in it's place and then resale the lesser card slabbed and in a PSA 8 holder. They would then resubmit the "good" card and have it again graded an 8 and the process would start all over again. In simple terms they were sending the "good" card in to get the flips and cert. #s. |
#110
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Posted By: WhenItWasAHobby
January 17, 2003 |
#111
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Posted By: chris
All for the info...I've heard the acronym used many times and was always curious... |
#112
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Posted By: Eric B
Is it the consensus belief that the auctions were allegedly shilled up to a certain level and these "repeats" were the cards that were not topped by a real bidder? And PSA was allegedly complicit by allowing the cards to be reholdered with a new lower cert #? |
#113
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Posted By: barrysloate
It certainly looks like something to that effect was going on. |
#114
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Posted By: WhenItWasAHobby
Eric, |
#115
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Posted By: Frank Evanov
Am I understanding this right? April 16 2007, 5:22 PM |
#116
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Yes, I have to agree that PSA's actions today by shutting down every CU thread that discussed the Memory Lane allegations is troubling and very telling. It also evidences a high level of arrogance on the part of PSA. Simply put, it is my belief that PSA's large market share has given them the courage to simply ignore JP Cohen's wildly criminal past and the now very suspicious actions of Memory Lane. The hubris of PSA is sort of laughable -- you'd think that CLCT was Microsoft instead of thinly traded, micro-cap company. I wonder what CLCT's directors would think of today's actions? |
#117
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Posted By: Eric B
OK. But would they really remove the reference to the old cert #. I don't see why they would need to, and certainly it may not be a priority. In fact there could be many reasons why they keep the old data. As an Accountant, when I make an entry that is incorrect I reverse it out, I don't delete it. We still keep the old entry as part of the data trail. |
#118
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Posted By: calleocho
I think there is something wrong here ...but im not sure what exactly |
#119
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Posted By: L.J.
As just explained by recent poster, a new cert is created when a card is sent in again and they are not required to send or delete original cert #...Since it is apparent that many of Paul Moss' findings are pretty clear, many but not all of the above cards have same fingerprints, and many cards auctioned are identical with new cert #'s. Now it should be pretty obvious now that the lower tier grading process( 5 day @ $13 or even 45 days @ $8... allowed a few of these cards to be regraded, trickled in, and hence the cert #'s of common items are consecutive with the key cards discussed. |
#120
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Posted By: Peter Spaeth
The above scenario presumes someone actually cracked out all the cards and resubmitted them. That would be madness given the value. No, the more likely explanation is they were given to PSA and PSA, for whatever reason, gave them new certs from a combination of prior bad numbers, unused numbers, etc. |
#121
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Posted By: David Smith
If you want to try and make money off of this, you could Sell Short shares of CLCT tomorrow and see what comes of this. If there is some type of criminal action going on and the market hears about it, the shares will drop and then you could buy them back adn make some dough. |
#122
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Posted By: dan
i won one of the 34 goudeys in question--what do u guys suggest i do?? head for the hills? graciously bow out of the auction? or honor my bid and hope and pray the card is legit??? |
#123
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Posted By: Peter Spaeth
The issue (if there is one) is the integrity of the prior auction, not the integrity of the cards themselves. |
#124
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Dan, I'm sure a high quality guy like JP Cohen will soon be sending out an email mass mailing to his customers (you know, as if it were only 3 hours until his auction ended...then 2 hours..then 1 hour...you get the picture) explaining away this issue. I mean, wouldn't it be hilarious that JP and company are more concerned with bombarding its clients with emails every few minutes in an effort to make money as opposed to a single email explaining away an allegation of a possible fraud? |
#125
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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth
Did not mean to offend anyone nor take this off topic. Feel free to start a hate Schwartz thread but I do not want to derail this train. |
#126
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Posted By: WhenItWasAHobby
Peter S. wrote: |
#127
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Posted By: Peter Spaeth
"Yes, your point is well taken. It would indeed take an immeasurable amount of testicular fortitude to crack out cards valued from $2K to $8K without the concerns of receiving a "bump-down". If your hypothetical scenario is true, then someone within PSA circumvented much of the PSA submission process to help someone out who didn’t want these cards to be recognized from the prior auction. Hmmmm....." |
#128
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Posted By: Todd Schultz
Hey Schwartz, your post is neither funny nor appreciated. It is remarkably crass. |
#129
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Posted By: Frank Evanov
That Schwartz post is repugnant and offensive. |
#130
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Posted By: jeffdrum
Takes the cake! Very offensive! |
#131
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Posted By: chris
why even go there, how absurd botn...a pot shot at Christianity... |
#132
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Posted By: Tony Andrea
Greg's pic should be removed. Tony |
#133
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Posted By: painthistorian
As I have been a bidder in JP's auctions, I am quite amazed of the above stated comparisons, many of which are clearly the same cards being offered using different certification #'s, especially those T202's which are so clearly fingerprinted, and that to me is astounding. |
#134
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Posted By: Cobby33
Never mind. |
#135
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Posted By: Denny
Leon, |
#136
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Posted By: leon
I locked the other thread and had had enough for the night...I never saw the picture of which I had numerous emails. I guess it's gone now. I don't think Greg meant to offend all of Christianity.....Sorry I went to sleep (or was off the board) early last night......regards |
#137
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Posted By: Frank Evanov
Feel free to start a hate Schwartz thread |
#138
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Posted By: E, Daniel
Greg Schwartz is a pig. Probably the most disgusting piece of filth I have ever had contact with. |
#139
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Posted By: Peter Spaeth
Well I had hoped some explanations would be forthcoming, but it appears we are dealing with this: |
#140
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Guys, I don't think that Greg had any intent to belittle Christianity. While the image he posted was offensive to some, the pertinent part of it was a wry attempt to demonstrate how JP Cohen is being crucified all because of his love for the almighty dollar. I think we'd all agree that the image was not intended to insult Christianity but, instead, to insult Cohen. I am not suggesting that it may not have insulted some of you or that the image was not offensive to you -- I'm simply saying that it is illogical to assume that in a thread about JP Cohen Greg decided to trot out his true feelings about Christianity. To analogize, in Dan's seal thread he finally threw up his hands when faced with comments about the minor humanitarian impact of the seals' plight that "the holocaust is over ... there is no comparison." Any right minded Jew (or any human for that matter, including Christians) should have been deeply offended by Dan's offhanded remark. Yet there was not a peep on this board. Why? Because, I presume, everyone figured that Dan did not mean to offend anyone with that unfortunate comment. I certainly was not offended because I think that in Dan's heart he is a good guy -- after all, just look at his love for animals. So, before we go about assuming that Greg intended to attack Christianity at least consider the strong possibility that the image was offensive but the intent to offend was absent. Now can we please get back to patiently waiting for Joe Orlando, JP Cohen and JP's probation officer to weigh in on the latest Memory Lane debacle? |
#141
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Posted By: leon
You should know better, counselor. That would be JP's "parole officer" not "probation officer".... |
#142
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Posted By: Cat
Jeff: |
#143
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
Ahhh...but Leon, I do know better! There is no parole in the federal system. Upon release from federal prison one is supervised by a United States Probation Officer. Now what would you do without me to teach the finer points of post-conviction life? |
#144
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Posted By: E, Daniel
And Imus was only being funny. |
#145
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Posted By: BcD
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#146
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Posted By: Anonymous
Well this thread certainly took a turn and went in all sort of tangents, and I'm still waiting for the gunman on the grassy knoll to be brought up. My intention of the original post was as I stated, a price comparison in the difference in prices realized between the two auctions on similar cards in light of what many feel is a bubble market and as to whether we are in a "corrective" mode, or whether the information regarding Cohen on this board had effected the overall prices. I also stated that several (NOT ALL by any means) were the identical card and that the serial number business was just something that caused me to question as to what was going on. |
#147
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
And why were the certs changed? And why were they replaced with 'old' numbers instead of new ones? And why isn't Cohen or Orlando explaining this? |
#148
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Posted By: Peter Spaeth
Someone reneged on 20+ cards? |
#149
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Posted By: BcD
THEY CAN'T JEFF! |
#150
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Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
I'd love to hear from Rob Lifson or Doug Allen on the percentage of non-paying winners in their auctions. |
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