t206 SL Beater but Factory Miscut and upside down

[Archive]

Posted By: Danny Grimes

Hello all,

I just picked up a t206 SL beater Jimmy Hart Montgomery. Has Old Mill back which is upside down and really miscut which had part of the "M" from the other card slightly visable. Being that this is a beater does this hold any value? Thanks


Danny

[Archive]

Posted By: MVSNYC

condition means everything in 90% of the hobby...BUT, the other 10%, which condition is not cared about, is reserved for rare cards which are hardly seen, and very desirable.

in this case, i would say condition is not even a factor, that is a very cool and rare upside down miscut.

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

However, there are few people that would actually pay extra for this type of rarity so you need to find the right buyer.

Peter

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe Pelaez

"However, there are few people that would actually pay extra for this type of rarity so you need to find the right buyer."

Peter

*
*

Hello Peter,
Are you saying that the new owner is not a collector, but a speculator - flipper?

[Archive]

Posted By: dan mckee

Very rare card, and I am the right buyer

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

Joe,

Tell me more about yourself...it was starting to get interesting. So when did you start collecting in earnest.

Peter C.

[Archive]

Posted By: Rob Dewolf

However, there are few people that would actually pay extra for this type of rarity so you need to find the right buyer.

Well, I "would actually pay extra" for it, and Dan already has said he would, so there's two toward the "few people" who would.

Once again, spot-on advice ...

[Archive]

Posted By: MVSNYC

count me too, for willing to pay extra for it...

i can also speak for at least half a dozen other collectors i know, that would too...

[Archive]

Posted By: Chris East

As I live in Montgomery, I have some interest in the card as well.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe Pelaez

I did say, "Rarity it is not ... Beautiful, beater, printing scrap it is....."

The word rare on this board, has lost it's total meaning.
Personally, I love that piece, and I also would be interested in it, but to call a scarce printing scrap rare, is stretching it a bit.
Actually, if you were to re read my question, you might notice that the point of my question was directed at Mr. Peter C.

It was Mr. Peter C. that said:

"However, there are few people that would actually pay extra for this type of rarity so you need to find the right buyer."

Peter
--------------

Every single question by Mr, Peter C. is based on buying, and selling, never ever about collecting.
We know he reads other peoples Wall Street Journal, but I'm beginning to wonder if he ever read anything about the Hobby?

My question was directed at Mr. Peter C's assumption that Danny Grimes was not a collector, but a fellow flipper.

Hello Peter,
"Are you saying that the new owner is not a collector, but a speculator - flipper?" .... and as always, he side steps the question.

Oh, and Peter, if you have any questions about me, and providing that you promise not to bore them to death ... just ask Macrae, or Lipset about me. ... that is if you know them, because you sound like a pre newbie.

[Archive]

Posted By: Martin Neal

Personally, I love to collect these types of cards.

[Archive]

Posted By: Ed

Calling another a "pre newbie" speaks volumes.

Reminds me of some Grateful Dead fans in college who would cast aspersions if you didn't let the hair grow long, grow a beard, etc. Never mind whether you in fact enjoyed the music.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave F

Joe..who really gives a rats butt if someone is a "flipper" instead of a collector? Will you honestly lose any sleep over it?

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

I don't always understand exactly what Peter C is getting at but I have not seen him criticize anyone without being provoked. I can't say that about several folks on the board. Rare and scarce have pretty close to the same meaning, though I take rare as a bit less seen. Personally I don't remember ever seeing another card exactly like this one so I would call it rare too....but that's just me..

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe Pelaez

A flipper speaks:

"Joe..who really gives a rats butt if someone is a "flipper" instead of a collector? Will you honestly lose any sleep over it? "

*
*

No Dave, I certainly don't lose sleep, but I'm glad to see that you notice that your shoes fit, and to your credit, you're not in denial.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe Pelaez

"I don't always understand exactly what Peter C is getting at but I have not seen him criticize anyone without being provoked."

*
*

Mein Fuehrer,
Little Peter has a talent.
Well developed to keep it under the radar of our Beloved Fuehrer's eyes.
In ancient Spanish Harlem, we had a saying for his type.
"He who throws the stone, and quickly hides the hand." (in Spanish of course.) ... "Tira la piedra, y esconde la mano."
In other words Mein Beloved Fuehrer ... he's a little sneaky.

All this Mein Fuehrer, is said with jest, of course.

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave F

Joe...I'm pleased that your glad I'm not a "flipper in denial".

And I cant remember who first said it...but whoever it was that made the commnet about Peter C having some oddball replies on this board is at this point way off the mark.

Joe...it takes a big glass of vodka and juice and some tums to even attempt to get through your "rantings" on this board.

[Archive]

Posted By: JimB

Joe,
Your Hitler/Nazi joke was just hilarious. Glad you only said it jest.
JimB

[Archive]

Posted By: Chad

So much for this being a thread about an interesting card. And it is a cool card.

--Chad

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe Pelaez

Sharp shoes you've got on.

If you're drinking Vodka, I hope it's a good brand, and you're not ruining it by mixing it.

Dave, you can count on one thing.
Any time that I hear any one referring to my hobby in Wall Street Journal terminology, and mind set, you can bet your last flipper that I might just step in and remind the predominant investor crowd of this board, that it was once a Hobby with strictly collectors.

Collectors that were not enslaved by numeric numbers.

Collectors that bought a card because they wanted to add it to their collection, and the thought of what will it fetch later, never crossed their mind.

There are a few collectors left on this board.
They can be recognized by the way they speak about the cards, and sets.

They will not use Wall Street terminology to discuss vintage cards.
They still hold on to the idea, that their sublimation is still a Hobby, and NOT a MARKet.

The few collectors on this board, will gladly leave The MARKet to you Dave, and your Skyrocket boys.

If per chance you haven't noticed lately, some of the disciples of plastic world, have become very concerned about possible ownership of doctored goods.

Let me use a word that you might understand, the word correction.
If there is a correction going on, it wont be among the collectors.

They've known about the all the BS that the Speculator - Flippers are just discovering now.
For obvious reasons, investors don't like to hear about problems.
Problems, mean problems for their investments.

Collectors don't have to worry about that, they just roll with the punches.

All right, all you Specs out there.
Calibrate your rifle sights.
Ajust the trajectory of your morters.
Don't forget to pull the pins from your grenades.
Give it your best shot.
Cause this solo collector is ready for the best you can throw at him.

[Archive]

Posted By: leon

I really think the subject Old Mill T206 is cool looking, don't you? Have you ever seen any others like it, or any other brands of T206, with upside down backs? best regards

[Archive]

Posted By: Dave F

Joe...unfortunately it seems rather easy to picture a 75 year old man in his fruit of the loom whitey tighties sitting in a boarded up apartment away from all reality.

It is comical you refer to myself or others like me of having "investments" in cards. I don't have "investments" Joe. As a man in his early 30's...I was taught to live in today's society. I have my "investments" in my Roth accounts, plain ol' stocks, good ol' 401K (which I no won't amount to much by the time I get it), and company revenues as I work for an employee owned company. What I have in cards could hardly be deemed as investments of any type.

The big difference here Joe is your old. You were around in the days you could pickup multiple pre-war cards for $5.00...heck, a $1.00 even I'd venture to say. That $1.00 today Joe won't get you very far with pre-war cards. Had you not already had your inventory built up you would be sitting in the same place as myself and many others on this board...forced to sell cards to buy others.

The collectors who aren't forced to do so today are called something else besides collectors....they are called millionaires.

[Archive]

Posted By: Bill K@sel

I agree Leon, and everyone else who is trying to keep this string on topic. It is a very cool mis-cut and I would think any t-206 collector would love to have it in their collection. I know I would. Nice pickup!

Bill

[Archive]

Posted By: nbrazil

"Being that this is a beater does this hold any value?"

It holds more value than you think. T206 has a legion of collectors who want to collect it in different ways. Think of it as Mt Everest...once you get to the top, you want to find other routes (if you went up north, lets go up south) and different methods (if you went up with oxygen cannisters, lets go without oxygen cannisters). Just look up some of the posts on T206s in the past few months...people are collecting this set in so many ways. and i have no doubt there are a number of collectors who would love to add this to their collection, as you can already see in this thread.

[Archive]

Posted By: Jim Rivera

posted on these in the past with no response. i love to see these and wish i had the old mill.
Barry just had an upside down in his auction. and there was a Cobb in a mastro or something not so long ago.
Runscott had 2 a few years back and 1 of those was the 1 in Barry's.

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe Pelaez

Joe Pelaez:

"The word rare on this board, has lost it's total meaning.
Personally, I love that piece, and I also would be interested in it, but to call a scarce printing scrap rare, is stretching it a bit.
Actually, if you were to re read my question, you might notice that the point of my question was directed at Mr. Peter C."

*
*

Leon, in answer to your question:

"Joe July 23 2007, 3:08 PM

I really think the subject Old Mill T206 is cool looking, don't you? Have you ever seen any others like it, or any other brands of T206, with upside down backs? best regards"

*

YES.

Leon, you have to realize, that before you, and many others on this board entered the hobby, back during the decade of the 1980's, I was able to fly to every major show in the country.
I would spend a long weekend in Calfornia, do a Berkus show, then shoot up to the SFO area for a Lee show.
Both shows being a 600 to 1000 table shows.
I would do the Chicago area, the STL area, the Texas area, the Denver area, and I lived in the NYC Metropolitan area.
Because I worked for an airline, I had an advantage over the majority of collectors, and I could always get it cheaper some where else.
The first year, I didn't realize the advantage, but after that, look out.
I did the show circuit as a collector, like Rosen wished he had as a dealer.

How do you think I amassed two almost complete T206 sets.
T205, T201, T209 type I, good chunk of the T209 type II ETC etc etc.

I got to see a lot of cards, although I learned well, and did well, I wish I knew then, what I know now.

My advise to new collectors, that want to be collectors.

DO NOT, I repeat, DO NOT RELY ON A THIRD PARTY.

DO IT YOURSELF.

IT'S THE ONLY WAY TO GET TO KNOW THE TERRITORY.

Joe Pelaez

[Archive]

Posted By: Sean BH

George?

Anyway, to get back on track I think the upside down back is pretty cool and would like to add one to my collection. It's a new rare back maybe and the Batch is amazing, nice card!

Sean BH

[Archive]

Posted By: boxingcardman

It is a printing error caused by the printer flipping the sheet the wrong way before printing the second side to be printed. I have and have seen many cards from many different issues where the printer made this kind of error. They usually end up with an offcentered back because the cards were aligned for cutting with respect to the fronts, not the backs. It would command a very decent price from specialty collectors who like print error cards.

[Archive]

Posted By: MVSNYC

like i said, i know several collectors (including myself) who would love to own these upside down cards...

very cool and "rare" (you hardly see them).

[Archive]

Posted By: Danny Grimes

well, thanks for all the input. Im not trying to start anything here im a collector, younger collector at 25 years old but not really a new collector of t206 or tobacco cards just haven't seen "everything" and to be honest ive seen some of the miscut backs but never an upside downer, till someone had a SGC graded Bender on the Buy/Sell/Trade Forums here. I emailed one gentleman already who was interested in this card and considering offers. email if interested





Danny


PS: thats a nice and intersting Emil Batch!

[Archive]

Posted By: Danny Grimes

well, i made up my mind i am going to sell this and would like to see it in someones hands who would enjoy it. myself i really don't give two hoots about the mis-cut error, as i just collect graded VG 3 t206. im going to transfer this post to the b/s/t area.


Danny

[Archive]

Posted By: Joe Pelaez

Damn, this is a good thread..............

No sooner than someone saying: "Have U ever seen an upside down T206 B4" ..... Whamo! There's the Batch...........

The Batch is clean as a whistle, but I like the character in your Jimmy Hart beater.
Anyone that knows me, knows that I like my beater T206 set better than the better T206 set.

Danny, correct me if I'm wrong.
You've made up your mind to sell your card, and all you want to hear now ..... are some NUMBERS from boys in the crowd.

Boy, you in a heap of luck.
You've got a mess of fish on here, that would like to add your card to their collection.
All you have to do, is go to the top of the thread and check out the ones that have stated so.

Some may be just talk.

Some may be serious dudes.

And some may be like Dave F.

Regardless, the questions are over ... It's time for the numbers.

Let the games begin..........

[Archive]

Posted By: peter chao

I agree with you. Unless you are independently wealthy it's tough to collect now days without flipping. Even buying a T206 Walter Johnson in excellent condition is costly. Many of us collectors couldn't do it without selling our '50s and '60s stuff.

Then there is the wife, how would you explain a $1000 charge for a baseball card. So to avoid having to do that you deal in cash. You sell your cards for cash and you buy in cash at shows.

That's a nice T206 beater with a upside down back, if you found it at a flea market it might come cheap, but on E-Bay it would probably still cost a pretty penny.

Peter C.