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#101
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Posted By: shane leonard
But this thread is really stupid. There should be no reason why Barry or any other auction house should offer a guarantee on cards that are authenticated. Not to sound like Bruce, but WE are trusting PSA and SGC to do their jobs by buying their products. If they screw up in grading a card, they have insurance to protect them from lawsuit or errors. Just like a doctor, insurance agent, lawyer and stock broker, WE all carry e/o insurance to protect our clients. |
#102
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Posted By: cmoking
Paul: "I see no problem with someone asking the opinion of another party, and that sale contingent upon said opinion. That is strictly up to the buyer and seller at the time of sale. I was refering to sales (way) after the fact. " |
#103
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Posted By: barrysloate
Jim- I want you to tell me how you would handle the following situation, and you have to put yourself in the consignor's position to answer it. |
#104
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Posted By: cmoking
I don't see how any contingency can be expected from the buyer's perspective in an auction format. There are usually two other parties involved (the underbidder and the consignor), it makes it super-complicated. |
#105
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Posted By: JimCrandell
Barry, |
#106
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Posted By: leon
The contingency Barry and I had was only that the raw card was unaltered and authentic. I would guess his consignor was a stand up guy too and had no issue with that. I know you wouldn't and neither would I.....On graded cards it's completely different.... |
#107
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Posted By: shane leonard
Jim, |
#108
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Posted By: peter chao
In a way, dealing with a graded card is more difficult because there is already an opinion (grading co.) that says the card is legitimate and cosignor and auction house is relying on that opinion. |
#109
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Posted By: JimCrandell
Shane, |
#110
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Posted By: barrysloate
Jim- SGC can and will look at a card and leave it in the holder, but they would be the first to admit it's not an ideal way to review it. They might make a mistake since the edges are hidden. |
#111
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Posted By: rand
OK, seems we are moving in the right direction with not holding the auction house directly responsible for graded cards...BUT from my personal experiences with 8's or higher...how about the grading company...when i try to cross psa to sgc, trimming is not really the issue as it is flaws/standards that keep it from an 88, what about GAI cards in high grade..i have run into problems there most of the time. what about a buyer trying to get a GAI card crossed....even if its sent to psa and sgc for review..??? |
#112
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Posted By: Charlie Barokas
Jim, |
#113
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Posted By: JimCrandell
Charlie, |
#114
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Posted By: Al C.risafulli
Jim: |
#115
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Posted By: rand
Jim, i think we can take this a step further...just like a Ruth bat, the auction house can get a LOA/COA from a couple of different sources...why not a $10,000+ card, why cant the auction house send it to psa & sgc for both approvals? would the card be worth a premium if passed by both company's? interesting concept if the bidders wanted it. |
#116
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Posted By: Corey R. Shanus
From an earlier voluminous thread discussing various legal issues facing the hobby, I had opined that there exists a real risk down the road that auction houses might indeed be held liable should slabbed cards in fact turn out to be altered IF the auction house when selling them did not make adequate disclosure of that possibility. Reasonable people of course can differ as to the merits of this opinion, but that is how I feel. With that said, though, I think it is inconsistent for people to expect the auction house in such instances to rescind the sales and refund the money without also expecting the consignor, especially one who knew or should have known of the issue of slabbed altered cards and was content to let the auction house sell the cards without adequate disclosure, to refund the proceeds of the sale to the auction house. |
#117
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Posted By: Kevin Saucier
"Editted to add: I mean no disrespect to Kevin, I am using his name because you brought it up. I have heard he is a great guy and very knowledgable." |
#118
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Posted By: Charlie Barokas
Jim, |
#119
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Posted By: peter chao
Guys, |
#120
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Posted By: barrysloate
Al- you got me nervous for a moment there. Let's use hypothetical cards in our examples. |
#121
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Posted By: JimCrandell
Charlie, |
#122
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Posted By: Wesley
Jim, Have you already had any your cards reviewed by Kevin? Just wondering why you have so much confidence in Kevin and so little confidence in PSA, SGC and GAI. |
#123
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Posted By: JimCrandell
Rand, |
#124
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Posted By: Charlie Barokas
Jim, |
#125
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Posted By: JimCrandell
Wesley, |
#126
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Posted By: barrysloate
I have to say Charlie is making a very good point. |
#127
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Posted By: JimCrandell
Charlie, |
#128
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Posted By: Wesley
Honestly, Jim, unless there is a glaring problem (like a badly flared or crimped corner or wrinkle) then I am usually ok with the opinion of one of the major grading companies. If the card is very expensive, then prior to the conclusion of the sale or auction, I either ask to inspect the card or have the seller describe the card to me. |
#129
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Posted By: JimCrandell
Barry, |
#130
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Posted By: rand brotman
Jim, i really value your opinion here...you have a huge significant amount of money in your psa cards. you have been buying these cards for many years and have a huge presense on the Registry. i have 2 questions...at what point did you start to be concerned with the "quality" of the cards... meaning at some point you must have started to not blindly buy the holder anymore and question the card... 2nd, you are so heavily invested with psa, wouldnt you feel slighted or cheated if some of the cards were trimmed and PSA did not reimburse you for them???? |
#131
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Posted By: peter chao
Rand, |
#132
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Posted By: JimCrandell
Rand, |
#133
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Posted By: JimCrandell
Peter, |
#134
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Posted By: Charlie Barokas
Jim, |
#135
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Posted By: Wesley
Jim, So on the cards graded by PSA or SGC, that you showed to Kevin, what percentage were deemed altered? |
#136
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Posted By: barrysloate
Of course Jim I would want the unaltered card. But Charlie's point has to do with market acceptance. I think I've been around the hobby a pretty long time but if it's my word against SGC's or PSA's, nobody gives a hoot about my opinion. And that's what Charlie is saying about Kevin- it's possible he is more skilled than the graders but the market probably won't listen to him either. |
#137
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Posted By: PAS
This is what you said on another thread within the past day or two. |
#138
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Posted By: JimCrandell
Wesley, |
#139
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Posted By: PAS
Jim, thank you for the clarification. I was not ascribing anything to you, merely trying to understand what you were saying. |
#140
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Posted By: rand brotman
Amazing isnt it?.....Graded NM-MT + cards are still suspicious even after 15 years of "professional" grading. ****Jim, i think this has been a spirited conversation that has been well recieved*** thanks |
#141
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Posted By: JimCrandell
Same thing I said before Peter--you are taking a snippet of a sentence I said and put it in a context that it was not meant for. |
#142
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Posted By: peter chao
An auctioneer or dealer may very well do extra to please Jim. But how about the rest of us who buy paltry $100-$500 cards, do we have to settle for more uncertainty about the legitimacy of our cards? |
#143
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Posted By: JimCrandell
Rand, |
#144
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Posted By: PAS
Maybe someday soon we will actually see "double-graded" expensive cards although I am not sure how the logistics of that would work. |
#145
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Posted By: rand brotman
Jim, what if you have a psa 10 graded 10 years ago. Kevin sees that its trimmed, no doubt in his mind. what would you do? |
#146
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Posted By: Marc S.
that was double-graded a while back. |
#147
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Posted By: Wesley
The Mantle was in an old SBC holder and in the text of the auction itself, Mastro guaranteed an 8 from PSA. |
#148
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Posted By: PAS
How did the Lajoie work, one company slabbed it and another issued some sort of opinion letter? |
#149
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Posted By: Wesley
Peter, I think it was in a PSA slab, but there was a tamper-proof GAI sticker on the slab's seal. When GAI first started, they offered a second opinion service called "exemplar" or something and they reviewed slabbs without breaking the existing holders. |
#150
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Posted By: PAS
Wes that makes sense. I had visions of a slab within a slab LOL. EDITED TO ADD I don't see how one can meaningfully review an expensive prewar card without examining it out of the holder. |
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