1930 Ray-O-Print -Why'd these go so cheap?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=270182806839

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270182807203

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

I think people shy away from them because it's possible to make modern prints of them. I don't know enough about them, but I've read that the Ruth and Gehrig are frequently reproduced, although I don't know how. But that's enough to get me to stay away. I'm sure others are in the same boat.

Plus, MP & Co. produced much nicer-looking cards in 1943 than the Ray-O-Prints.

-Al

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Posted By: Matt

My understanding is that the Ray-O-Print was a kit which allowed you to make your own prints. If you have the kit, you could make as many as you wanted, so the prints are relatively worthless.

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Posted By: Al C.risafulli

That's right, that's what it was. Thanks.

-Al

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

Does anyone slab these or do the grading companies stay away from them?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

If you have a Ray O Print with the kit/envelope you're in good shape, in part as the kit itself is rare and valuable.

While there are lots of Ray O Print reprints, reprinting doesn't appear to be an issue with most other self developing photo cards. So the collector doesn't have to be so worried with other issues.

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Posted By: Matt

Dan - slab what - the prints? They are something you or I could make a thousand of on a whim. Or did you mean the kits?

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Posted By: Dan Bretta

It looks like a card to me...are the prints on photo paper or cardboard?

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Posted By: davidcycleback

They're little photos, so they have to be on antique photo paper. I'd be automatically wary of Ray O Prints in extra high grade. 75 percent or so of the Ruth and Gehrig Ray O Prints are in very high grade, which probably means at least 75 percent or so are reprints.

As they're old paper photos, if the paper is thin and there's some silvering in the image you can assume it's original. If it's on thick photo paper and Near Mint-Mint, it's probably a reprint.

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Posted By: Kyle

Some of the low end grading companies have graded them, like MINT or FGA. Junk. If anything, buy the negative, not the prints.

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Posted By: Matt

I would imagine, any grading company that grades cut pictures from the Spalding guide would grade one.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Though scarce, you will find the complete kits for sale once in a while, including on eBay. Each kit is for one card, possibilities are Ruth, Gehrig, Dempsy, Lindbergh, Mary Pickford and Herbert Hoover. Comes in an envelope with clear text-- MP & Company manufacturer.

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Posted By: Matt

And I quote the esteemed David Cycleback:

QUESTION: I have heard that some of the Ray O Prints Babe Ruth and Lou Gehrig are reprints. Are you aware of this?

ANSWER: I advise care, though not paranoia, when purchasing one of these items.

The circa 1930 Ray O Prints were sold as little photographic kit that allowed a kid to make his or her own photograph of a famous American. The kid would receive a photographic negative and a snapshot sized piece of photographic paper. The resulting photo would be of a famous American. Subjects included Ruth and Gehrig, boxer Jack Dempsy, Herbert Hoover and Charles Lindbergh. The photos, which resemble blank backed trading cards, are check listed in the Standard Catalog of Baseball cards.

The problem is that in modern times someone can take the original negative and make modern versions of the photos. All it takes is more photographic paper. It has long been rumored that many of the Ray of Prints on the market are modern versions. I have not seen a Ray O Print in person in several years, so am offering here nothing more than my impressions. I have seen an inordinate number of high grade Ray O Prints for sale— which, at least, raises an eyebrow. As someone who specializes in 20th century photographs, I can tell you that Mint Pre-WWII photographs are as common as hen’s teeth. I own thousands of photographs and not a single one is in Mint condition.

The collector or dealer experienced with vintage photographs should not have difficulty distinguishing between vintage and modern versions. In particular, the vintage versions will often have distinct signs of aging (possibly including silvering to the image) that won’t appear on a modern version. A quick shine of a black light will identify many modern versions.

The beginning collector’s best bet is to buy a Ray O Print when the original kit, including negative, comes with it. From a straight collecting standpoint, it would be neat to have the entire kit anyway.

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Posted By: davidcycleback

I have taken a blacklight to my photograph collection (sport and non-sport, wide variety of photo paper), and over 90 percent of the modern photo paper fluoresced brightly.

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Posted By: leon

Don't forget...once made you need to dry them....