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#1
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
As I studied the National Pastime I decided that Ty Cobb was the greatest ball player ever. |
#2
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: steve
Ruth was first a star pitcher, then the Bambino era followed. Should Ruth's extra credit for pitching land him in the top spot? |
#3
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: MurphyBrooks
Ruth. He was a dominant pitcher with two 20 win seasons under his belt by age 22, and probably would have made the HOF if he never hit a single home run. When he joined the Yankees, he not only hit more home runs than any other player in the early 20s, he hit more than any other team. You can argue Cobb or Wagner was a better hitter, but as an all around player, Ruth was greatest. |
#4
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Anonymous
By 1942 they'd seen Ruth pitch and hit... |
#5
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Rob D.
I'll vote for Ruth, if only to give Frank another chance to tell someone they're wrong. |
#6
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Marc S.
the difference between Ty Cobb and Babe Ruth was that Ty Cobb averaged one extra hit per forty at-bats. |
#7
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Rhett Yeakley
It is Ruth in my book, due to his hitting and pitching combined. Among many Early ballplayers I think there was a grudge held against Ruth for being the catalyst for "changing" the way the game was played. I think this hurt him more than anything else. |
#8
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: fkw
Babe Ruth by far.... |
#9
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Mark L
During the era of inside baseball (the so-called "dead ball era), defense, speed, strategy, situational hitting, outright trickery, and other fine things that are hard to measure played a bigger role than they did in the 20's or thereafter. And from what I understand, a shortstop was a heck of a lot more important to the outcome of a game than he has been during the era of the home run. So I tend to give a lot of weight to those oldtimers who favor Wagner and try to measure that against Cobb's amazing record and Ruth's, too. As far as I'm concerned, trying to choose among the Big Three is like looking up at the Alps and trying to figure out which one of the peaks is highest. It's just hard to tell from here. |
#10
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Rhett Yeakley
Readdressing the Wagner/Cobb thing for a second. I seems that today that when Cobb and Wagner are included in the same set, they routinely sell for roughly the same amount of money, with Cobb maybe having the slight edge, but it is slight. |
#11
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: John Kalafarski
This is one of my favorite topics to debate. I think, in large part, what makes it so interesting is that it's really hard to compare players from different eras. It would be great, also, if we had a lot of film to look at from the deadball era. Since, I've retired, I've done a ton of reading about the subject and collected a good deal of old baseball on video. I'm not big on relying overly on stats. With that said, I have a list of seven position players who I think are the best of all time: Ruth, Williams, Cobb, Mays, Wagner, Mantle, DiMaggio. I give Williams the consideration of the 5 years lost to military service; also, he was hindered by the distance to the right field stands at Fenway; and Joe D was shooting to the very deep distances in Yankee Stadium. Ruth, of course, had the short shot to right in the same park as Joe. Mays played too long and that hurt his stats. I give Mantle credit for playing injured for most of his career. Cobb's lifetime ave. is hard to ignore. Put Ted in Yankee Stadium and give him the 5 years and he'd be #1. Put Joe D in Fenway without the bad heels and he'd be #1 too. Give Joe Jackson the rest of his career and . . . |
#12
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Jay
In my opinion Ruth was the greatest slugger and had the most innate ability of any player ever. However, none of us have ever seen Cobb or Ruth or Wagner play. The people who did thought Cobb was the best all around player ever and it is difficult to disagree. What is certain in my mind is that Cobb is currently the most underappreciated player. |
#13
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: davidcycleback
I just don't want to hear revisionist (and incorrect) history that Barry Bonds was considered one of the top 5 players before he started using steroids, as he wasn't. That's an often repeated myth. |
#14
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: John Kalafarski
My father, who is 91, saw Ruth play. |
#15
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Aaron Conyers
Interesting topic... here is a article discussing this topic. Hopefully you can view the text it is a good read. This has been in my collection for some time now. Has a nice autograph as well. |
#16
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: JimB
"Babe Ruth fundamentally transformed the game of baseball, whereas Cobb was "merely" the best hitter of all-time " |
#17
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Wesley
On the Glory of Their Times CD, there seemed to be a concensus among the players interviewed that Honus Wagner was by far the best player they have played with or against. When Wagner's contemporaries say he was the best they have ever seen, I think this has to hold a lot of weight. |
#18
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Darren
I don't buy the "infatuated with the homerun" argument in the case of guy's like Ruth, Mays, Williams, etc. Ruth did everything. |
#19
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
Wesley, I agree... Wagner first. Based on what those guys said. But this article has me thinking of going back to Cobb. |
#20
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: fkw
Ruth and Cobb were separated by only 8 years, they basically played in the same era. Wagner is from the dead ball era, but Cobb played only half his career in the dead ball era. |
#21
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Marc S.
<<Babe Ruth just hit a lot of home runs. Ty Cobb transformed the whole game when he played. >> |
#22
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: LetsGoBucs
Well somehow replied to PSA .5's in the wrong thread and since I need to edit.... |
#23
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Eric Brehm
I think it is impossible to pick the "best" (most skilled) baseball player ever, because of the difficulty of comparing across eras. But Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, and Willie Mays stand out as clear choices for the best players of their respective eras. So I would pick them as the three best of all time. For players active today, perhaps Alex Rodriguez will ultimately go down in history the same way, but the era isn't over yet. |
#24
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Mike
The argument should me who is number two. Nobody is close to the Babe. |
#25
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: davidcycleback
Of Cobb, Mays and Ruth it is notable that Mays was the only 5-tool player, in that he was by far the best fielder of the bunch. |
#26
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: boxingcardman
You cannot ignore the pitching. It makes him the most complete player ever. In my book a player who has top tier HOF stats in the field and had a HOF-potential career as a pitcher cannot be considered anything except the best to ever play the game. |
#27
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: steve
Most of the time - |
#28
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: davidcycleback
I agree with you. If Walter Johnson was the best pitcher, he has to be given due consideration. |
#29
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Paul S
We all know the difficulty in comparing dead ball to live ball eras. But consider, Ruth has the distinction of shining in both. An incredible dead ball pitcher and an incredible live ball hitter (begs the questions: What if Ruth the pitcher faced Ruth the batter? Would the universe implode?) Except, he was so incredible as a dead ball hitter he'd already began the transition before the live ball era. |
#30
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
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#31
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Richard S. Simon
There are valid reasons for all these picks but the only true five tool player of all these mentioned, and in my opinion the greatest player ever, is Willie Mays. |
#32
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Mark L
I have nothing against Willie Mays. He's the only one of these players whom I ever saw and I think he is right up there. But if having 5 tools is the ticket, then I think that's an argument that helps Wagner in this contest. |
#33
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Frank Wakefield
At the top, in the TSN recap, Al Simmons didn't receive a vote. He did get to vote himself, and he told TSN that he voted for Cobb. |
#34
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Cashews
i feel like it has to be ruth. babe forever changed the game single handedly and was above and beyond any player anyone had ever seen. he added a whole new dimension to the game and was seen as a larger than life folk hero, a lot like mickey mantle but to a much larger degree. not only did he demolish pitching, but he excelled at it as well. so in my mind if you were talking about the greatest all around player to ever play the game there is no doubt that it has to be ruth. |
#35
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: boxingcardman
You still don't know who they were, how they chose, or whether they were even mentally competent at the time of the vote. Some of these voters were the same tools responsible for HOFers Jesse Haines, George Kelly and Rabbit Maranville. Their current incarnations have given golden gloves to players who didn't even play 100 games at the position. Again, a vote isn't good for anything except picking the winner of the particular contest. If you want to prove a fact, argue facts, not someone else's interpretation of some unknown set of facts. |
#36
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: howard
I'd like to know who the two schnooks were that voted for Ross Youngs. |
#37
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Cashews
ross youngs was an unbeliveable player. he's one of my favorite anonymous HOFers. john mcgraw himself said he was the best outfielder he ever saw. youngs met a tragic end and died way too early. i liken him to addie joss and his tragic life. |
#38
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Fred C
Babe! |
#39
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: DD
I think it's Ruth over Cobb. Babe's OBP, slugging, RBI's, etc., are all better than Cobb's. |
#40
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Phil Garry
I would go with Ruth, mainly because of the pitching/hitting combo like many others have stated. |
#41
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted
First, I do not trust any poll taken now, or in 1942. A poll can be conducted (or manipulated) to achieve any desired result. |
#42
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Ryan Christoff
Shouldn't this thread really be "Greatest MAJOR LEAGUER ever" instead of greatest "player"? |
#43
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted
The original dimensions of Yankee Stadium when it was opened in 1923 were larger than the dimensions in the post-war era. |
#44
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Jay
I saw most of Willie Mays' career and I never thought he was even the best player of his time. He is another guy who, like fine wine, has improved with age. The played 22 years so his aggregate numbers are impressive. However, in his 22 seasons he hit under .300 in 12. He averaged 86 RBIs per seasons along with 35 HRs and 15 stolen bases. Obviously a great player but very far from the best ever. |
#45
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: MVSNYC
George Herman "Babe" Ruth |
#46
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Jason L
compare his peak and his career numbers to anyone and I think you will be surprised at how strongly he matches up. |
#47
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Ryan Christoff
Yeah, those two 20 win seasons (exactly 20 in each) really blow you away. Maddux is definitely great, but even if you're just comparing peak years, Pedro was far better than Maddux. Neither belongs in the discussion of who was the greatest pitcher ever. |
#48
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: MVSNYC
Jason- do you happen to live in the state of Georgia, by any chance? |
#49
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Jeff Lichtman
...led the league in hitting 11 times, slugging percentage 8 times, on base percentage 7 times, on base + slugging percentage 10 times, hits 8 times, doubles 3 times, triples 4 times, Home Runs once, RBI 4 times, and stolen bases 6 times. .366 lifetime BA and 4000 hits. |
#50
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Best / Greatest baseball player ever, redux
Posted By: Pennsylvania Ted
Ruth.....1921 |
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