Opinions about GAI

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

The smell of the alcohol in the last post is making it very difficult to read and/or understand. Any chance you could give it another shot in the morning? Or afternoon maybe? I am honestly curious to know what it says.

-Ryan

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Posted By: B.C.Daniels

you are correct Leon about Mike not being as hands on with actual grading after they were rolling along. Did you see him behind the curtain in LA? I didn't but they sure graded a lot of cards there. he was hands on before that at the previous tri-star shows in san fran however.

BcD

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Posted By: quan

ok so the OP has started a thread about psa, sgc...and now gai. i can't wait to log on after sunday dinner and find a new thread about beckett!

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Posted By: Steve

Sounds to me like Mr. Baker should become more involved then with his company.


Steve

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Posted By: JK

"So, to put it into terms that are easier for you to comprehend, I was asking about the truth of GAI (ie are they a third rate company etc.). "


Just a suggestion - if you want to avoid others being confused over your meaning, try using the word "opinion" rather than "truth" in your title - i.e. - "What's your opinion about GAI".

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Posted By: JK

"I have seen many cards that I need in GAI holders -- I have never bought a single one. No sense in rolling the dice. "

I think there are very good deals to be had on GAI if you can find the right ones. The most valuable card in my collection was originally slabbed by GAI. Crossed over without any problem to SGC - but I got it for several thousand dollars cheaper than I would have had it been slabbed by SGC or PSA originally.

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Posted By: Brian

Glad it worked out for you JK. For each story about making some $ on a GAI crossover, I hear another about someone getting burned for big $ playing the same game. I understand the game, but choose not to play.

If I want to gamble, I will play poker.

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

you referring to my post? If so bring it back up.

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Dan,

Not sure exactly what you mean when you say "bring it back up" but, yes, I was talking about your post.

-Ryan

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Posted By: Bottom of the Ninth

Anyone who has had a discussion with Rocchi or Baker since their move will know they are doing everything they can to get back on track. They also understand very well what they are up against--getting back the public's confidence even if that means one customer per week. Baker is back to doing what he does best--grading cards. Personally I have no reservations buying a white label GAI card sight unseen.

Greg

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

means if you are trying to insult me, wrong guy .If you couldnt read what I was writing move on without the insults. Having the charm that I do isnt advisable.

This would be like saying that no one cares about Cuban baseball cards except fo you and Castro....but I wouldnt do that.

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Posted By: plifter

What would the market do if PSA ran into the same problem that GAI ran into with their relocation and apparent financial problems? Would PSA cards suddenly drop in value?

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Posted By: Steve

Matt GAI's problems started well b4 the relocation debacle.

Not sure of the exact date but it was on a Monday I am told.


Steve

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Posted By: plifter

Steve, this is off topic but I couldn't help but lurk over the PSA board. I love the thread about the 1962 Topps Common that sold for over $3,300 because it was graded an "8". Didn't I start a thread titled "The insanity of graded cards" which was about this same issue? I got flamed to death and kicked off the forum for my thread. I think some of the people that were flaming me are now making fun of the person that spent $3300 on a common. Ya' gotta love those guys on the CU site!

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Posted By: JK

Matt,

Must you bring up the CU board in every thread that you start - we all get it now. You were flamed over there and came over here. Now every time you post about CU, it ultimately turns into some clown from CU coming over here and starting the argument all over again.

Drop it. Post here and stop discussing CU every five minutes or go back to CU.

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Posted By: Ryan Christoff

Dan,

Not trying to insult you, just trying to figure out what your incomprehensible drunk-ass post said. Sorry for making an effort to understand you, Mr. Wrong Guy.

I'd ask you what in the world your Castro reference means but I'm afraid it might upset your apparently delicate constitution. And I wouldn't do that.

-Ryan

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Posted By: Nick

Clown? No, we got rid of the clown, and thanks for taking him in.

Nick

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Posted By: Rob D.

Thanks, Josh.

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Posted By: boxingcardman

Can't we all just get along?

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: Dan Koteles

do you get off of insulting people?

Cash in you Sosa rc's and buy a pre war card and save a little money for your first anger-management session.

Just think when Castros reign is over they are going to release the first issue of a "Cuban Barbie" ,boy that will bolster your Barbie collection.

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Posted By: Paul S

I thought this thread started off interestingly -- however, it's good to know when to stop:

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Posted By: Zinn

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Posted By: boxingcardman

Yeah, I said it.

Sic Gorgiamus Allos Subjectatos Nunc

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Posted By: 1880nonsports

and other threads here that are filled with anger and other unpleasantness - make me leary about meeting my fellow collectors if I were to attend this year's National....

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Posted By: davidcycleback

Just learn some jujitsu and you'll be fine. Or else say "Hey, there's Tom Candiotti!" and kick the offender in the shins.

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Posted By: leon

It's too late...you have already met me. I think there is more anger pent up behind a keyboard than in person...I think the Net54 Dinner will be a hoot once again....

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Posted By: Steve

Have we found out the truth yet?

Steve

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Posted By: Paul S

And when we do will it set us free?

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Posted By: Brad L.

It seems this whole thread was made to secretly start a flame war regarding PSA and the CU boards (as with many other threads from the same OP). I agree, let it go. I got some great (non-biased) info on the workings of other grading companies from the CU boards. I will now stop talking about the CU boards,lol. It sure does seem like there's a lot of arguments here, I hope that's not always the case. I have seen many informative threads here and hope to stick around for awhile!

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Posted By: Brad L.

I guess I shouldn't assume that you were trying to start a flame war. Sorry about that. Just curious, how long have you (OP) been in the hobby? I've only recently began collecting again in the past two years (collected in the early late 70's to early 90's) and already have a good handle on the quality of the TPG companies. I'm just curious as to how long you have been looking into the graded card market.

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Posted By: Matt R

I honestly didn't intend for this to become hostile. I'm sorry
I must remember to use "opinion" instead of "fact" or "truth".

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Posted By: Matt R

I've been in the hobby since 1982 but I took a couple of hiatuses. Basically, I've only been dealing with graded cards for a year and a half or maybe two years. On my latest return to the hobby, I got a big shock to see high graded cards from the 1980's selling at 4 figures. I still haven't come to grips with that end of the market. Lately most of the cards I've been spending a lot of money on are from the 1960's and older. I do buy some modern stuff, normally packs just because I enjoy opening them.

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Posted By: Tim Kinserlow

Matt(plifter),

That is just it, you did come here to vent. You know it, as you had an axe to grind with CU for giving you the boot. You was hoping for everyone on here to agree with you, and make you feel some vendication, so you could throw it in the faces of the CU members.

You started this same topic on CU, and got booted when you started making crazy rants, threats, and everything in between, when people did not agree with your wild ideas. That is when CU sent you packing/banned.

You are better off leaving the graded market alone, until you understand it. No company is perfect, they have all made mistakes. They will all make mistakes in the future. GAI has a dark cloud(not just due to their business relocating and that whole fiasco), and there was a fair share of over-graded and altered cards that got through.

People found this out the hard way, when they tried to cross them to SGC and PSA holders. You have just experienced it as well, with this Goudey Ruth. Learn to deal with the truth, and do not make excuses to bash a company because they are catching flaws that were over-looked by GAI.

As for your Goudey Ruth, I will bet that SGC finds the same issues PSA did, and will not cross it over as a 4 or 4.5. Will they be the villan next??

SGC is a bit more tough on vintage than PSA(in my opinion), so if PSA did not cross it, I very seriously doubt SGC will either.

You card is not worthless, but it is worth less than what you paid for it. Did you get a bit of a shaft by buying a GAI holdered Goudey Ruth, while paying pretty good money for it? You could say that, and will feel it, if you ever try to recoupe what you have in it. Reality is hard to take, sometimes. We have all been burned at one time or another, but it's what you learn from your mistakes, that makes you better educated next time.

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Posted By: Phil Garry

I have found GAI to be very responsive and attentive to their grading time frames since they have relocated. I think their key personnel in dealing with the public is doing an excellent job and I have been able to work with Brennan Ault to get my orders through very quickly and Mike Baker continues to be one of the top graders in the business and I believe he is now reviewing all incoming grading card submissions at Global. Keep up the good work, guys!

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Posted By: Matt R

Tim, I respectfully disagree. I performed my experiment with PSA. They failed to spot two out of three trimmed cards that I submitted. If they can't even get that part right, why would I put any faith in the number they put on the slab? I do have an axe to grind with PSA. All of you who have sent your cards to them should as well. They do not adequately provide the service that they are selling. Joe Orlando is getting rich at the expense of the collecting hobby. Collectors should learn how to grade cards on their own and not rely on someone making $9 an hour to look at cards. They aren't experts by any means.

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Posted By: Brad L.

"Collectors should learn how to grade cards on their own"

Herein lies the biggest problem you seem to be having, accepting the fact that the graded card market is what it is and isn't going anywhere anytime soon. You can perform all the experiments that you want to all the grading companies and that isn't going to make them go away. I sort of find it hard to understand what the motivation is to trim cards and see if they get slabbed. For one, the company wouldn't slab a trimmed card if you didn't send in a trimmed card (I see it as adding to a problem that is infrequent in the first place, but of course negatives are looked at harder than positives). And if the "quality" of the work is what you are condemning, then you are never going to be happy with a grading company because they all make mistakes. I highly suggest taking someone's advice from above, and get out of the graded card market because you really don't seem to have a grasp on it. And that the little that you do seem to know, is being slowly buried with malicious experiments that add nothing to the hobby. Every card grading company has slabbed trimmed cards, so I'm not sure that you've uncovered anything that everyone didn't already know. Try to re-evaluate how you look at this hobby, it doesn't seem like you're having much fun.

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Posted By: Matt Ranson

Brad, this experiment has changed how I look at the hobby. I have spent at least a grand in grading fees and yearly membership fees alone. That doesn't even touch the premiums I paid for the cards I bought that were already slabbed (57 Mantle PSA 6, 57 Ted Williams, PSA 6, 57 Willie Mays, PSA 7, 52 Bowman Mays PSA 5, etc.) Now I find out that they are a complete fraud! I trimmed those cards halfway drunk at 2:00 in the morning using a $25 paper trimmer! I had never trimmed a card before. They were pure hack jobs that these "experts" couldn't spot. Why wouldn't I be angry? If a drunken fool like me can slip trimmed cards past them, what could an expert do? It calls into question every card with the PSA label on it! Wake up everyone, you are being ripped off.

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Posted By: Brad L.

Then I guess it would have to call into question not just PSA, but every other grading company. I would find it hard to believe that there is even one grading company that hasn't slabbed a trimmed card. Which is why I am careful about what I buy no matter if it is raw or slabbed. I guess my point is that the TPG concept is not going anywhere and no matter how hard you try, you're not going to change that. And in the day and age of eBay and an ever increasing amount of scam artists, believe it or not, quality TPG companies (PSA included, lol) are providing a very valuable service. Keep in mind that there is always going to be human error until they get computers to do the grading. *edited to add: And even then, people will complain.

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Posted By: Matt

Theoretical Question:

How frequently does a grading company have to get it right to be performing a good service to the hobby? Certainly, there is a threshold which, if you get it wrong to often, you are performing a disservice by putting a bunch of bogus slabbed cards into circulation.

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Posted By: Tim Kinserlow

Plifter,

The self admissions of being a drunken fool are interesting..

It's clear you do have an axe to grind with PSA, because they will not cross over a GAI holdered Goudey Ruth. Nothing more..

If you want reality and truth, send it to SGC, today, and let them holder it however it grades. Then, come back here and tell us how bad SGC is, when they do not cross it to an SGC 4, or SGC 4.5, right??

Let's hear it, Matt. If PSA is the bad guy, then send it out to SGC right away, and hear what they tell you. PSA is seeing a problem with your Goudey Ruth, and you don't want to accept that what you bought is not exactly what you thought it was.

If you are unwilling to send the card right out to SGC for another independent review, I see no point in your posting this jargon anymore.

You are just hoping that you could win this board over against PSA, find sympathy, and everyone would agree with you, but it has blown up in your face. You see, people over on this forum are not dumb, they can see through you, and what your true agenda is.

Pertaining to this alleged PSA experiment;

Like I told you, provide the PSA submission info, and I will listen. If you will not, I call you on this one.

EDIT: to add comments

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Posted By: Brad L.

"Theoretical Question:

How frequently does a grading company have to get it right to be performing a good service to the hobby? Certainly, there is a threshold which, if you get it wrong to often, you are performing a disservice by putting a bunch of bogus slabbed cards into circulation".

I agree 100%. What I don't agree with is bashing one company that banned someone from their message boards, without objectively looking at other companies as well. And like I said, a negative is going to look much worse than it actally is, meaning, if you actually looked at the percentage of trimmed cards slabbed by PSA (or any other grading company), vs. non-trimmed, I think you would see that it isn't a regular occurance.

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Posted By: Matt Ranson

First, I'm not going to send my Ruth to another "professional" grader. I've formed the opinion that card grading is a scam. I'm not spending any more money on grading fees. There is no problem with my Ruth card. If I ever crack it out, I will put it in one of those half inch thick screw down holders, but I think it is safer encapsulated in it's GAI holder.

My experiment was with PSA, so that's why I'm bashing them. I don't think the results would have been any different with any other grading company. This issue has nothing to do with my Ruth card. I'm at peace with my Babe. I grade the card in EX condition by my standards. GAI deemed it VG-EX+ which is just a notch below EX. I no longer question anything regarding it's authenticity and whether or not it's been altered. My Babe is staying in my display case in the same holder that I bought it in. A few weeks ago I was in a panic because PSA didn't give it their seal of approval. My experiment with PSA has given me peace of mind that a card does not need to be in a PSA slab to be legitimate. On the other board you insisted that my Ruth had obviously been trimmed. The measurements of the card indicate otherwise. How many people insisted that GAI was a third rate grading company? Quite a few if I remember correctly. My experiment demonstrates that PSA does not provide very good service. Therefore I don't know how someone can trash GAI and insist that PSA is the final authority which you have strongly indicated in the past.

So, if you are asking "What's the point to all of this?" My answer is that third party grading should be taken with a grain of salt.

Also, you might want to look up "jargon" in the dictionary. I certainly do not see any jargon in any of my postings.

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Posted By: Steve

You gotta let it go man, it's eating you up.

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Posted By: Rob D.

Matt:

We. Get. It.

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Posted By: Kevin Saucier

Going back on topic...Opinions about GAI:

As long as Mike Baker is there and I know "he alone" is grading my cards, I will be a customer. Here are a few reasons:

First and most important, they grade cards that others won’t. Since my concern is collecting over investing, I prefer my cards in a protective holder and why not have a grade attached. Personally, they have proven integrity, have always been honest and to my knowledge are not rumored to have a dark or secret past. They are still approachable and very friendly.

Sure, I will use other grading companies as well but won’t run from Global. I do think they could use some stabilizing and should recruit some more talent. Baker is one of if not the best but he is just one guy. Although I do have a big problem with them using that Gizmo dude...even if they did kiss and make up.


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www.AlteredCards.com - in-depth education on advanced card doctoring techniques & detection with detailed examples

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Posted By: Aaron Patton

...Matt, CU is calling you home.

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Posted By: Steve

Will someone pass the popcorn.

Please.

Steve

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Posted By: leon

Unless someone emails me and convinces me to let this farce keep going lets put it to bed....back to cards.....