Even the so called good guys...ugly hobby?

[MikeU]

Originally Posted by JK

My assumption, after reading the email, was that Kevin may not have provided an honest response when asked to review cards for certain collectors (which he states he has done hundreds of times). In other words, upon reviewing an altered card, he simply failed to disclose his opinion that the card was indeed altered - thereby insuring that the particular card took its place in the "targets" collection.

Of course, there are a lot of assumptions in there.

Why would Kevin do this to Jim Crandel?

[JK]

Originally Posted by MikeU

Why would Kevin do this to Jim Crandel?

Good point

[smtjoy]

To me this is not even in the same league as the Chan stuff. I have never even seen kevin post cards for sale and certainly not thousand dollar cards. Kevin has been open about what he is doing and I found many of his post and test my insightful. In any case it seemed to me more like bragging, granted never a good thing to do.

I do think that JK made a good point that maybe he reviewed cards and didnt give the true feedback. This could happen for many reasons, some good and some not so much. I for one would hate to tell someone that their most prized card is altered, bleh. I hate telling friends that their 80's cards are worthless when they think they have a jackpot. Also I know he is close to Jim C and how much he prizes his collection and would not want to be the one to tell him one of his best cards might be altered and with 20,000 graded PSA 8's im sure more than a couple are altered.

That said even if kevin feels a card is altered do we really know? I have two cards that PSA and SGC disagree on, one thinks its trimmed and the other said its fine so how do we really know.

[wonkaticket]

"I do think that JK made a good point that maybe he reviewed cards and didnt give the true feedback. This could happen for many reasons, some good and some not so much. I for one would hate to tell someone that their most prized card is altered, bleh."

Scott understood but do you think I enjoyed telling the owners of the Hart card who I consider close friends their five figure card and pride of their T206 back collection was a fake?

The point is even that argument holds little water for me if you're out to make the hobby a better place you can't just do that for your pals or hold back info to protect your feelings or someone else’s IMO.

Besides I think the comments Kevin made were very telling to me regardless of how you dice it.

I never did considered Kevin quite the white knight a lot of folks did but I wasn't turned off to him either. I just always chalked Kevin up to be somewhat of a self promoting business man with an idea for a 4th party review service for big dollar cards. Not unlike the card pricing site business startups awhile back using the board as a platform etc.

Now after reading this I'm pretty clear and have come to the conclusion I would never send Kevin any $$$ cards and his creditability with me is way below that of any of the 3rd party grading companies.

Do I think Kevin is a master forger nope I think Kevin is his own biggest fan in that area.

I do feel that honest folks don’t say stuff like that or even allude to it joke or not that's what really bothers me.

I also thought the folks on here should know. I would feel pretty bad if Kevin did turn out bad later on and folks who were sending him cards got burned in someway.

With that said I do respect all of your opinions that's what is great about discussions like this.

Cheers,

John

[Peter_Spaeth]

My recollection is that the last time Jim C. spoke on the subject he said Kevin had NOT actually reviewed any cards for him.

[MikeU]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

My recollection is that the last time Jim C. spoke on the subject he said Kevin had NOT actually reviewed any cards for him.

For the record, I have received confirmation from Jim C. that none of his cards were ever reviewed by Kevin.

[Abravefan11]

I take the stance on forgers and scammers in our hobby that MLB does with gamblers.

You don't scam anyone or forge baseball cards ever. You don't associate with know scammers or forgers.

This is the cardinal rule and if you break it you lose all credibility and are not given a second chance.

I would never, under any circumstance claim to have stolen from anyone, even my worst enemy.

[cfc1909]

Dan B -I am not really sure what Scott has done to you and I only know some of the history with him and Leon but as far as I know he has not comitted fraud or cheated anyone in a deal. He does write harsh things on his board and he has said enough to be kicked off this board and does that mean he has no integrity?
He may threaten you but not your collection like the Museum-I would say that is no integrity.

My dealings with Scott have all been good and he has added very nice cards to my collection. He is very knowledgable with vintage cards and did help me with my research on the bar Old Mills.
I know many on here don't like him but he is not as bad as he is made out to be. At least not to me.

I guess we disagree on this one but that is part of a chat board
JR

[jmk59]

I agree that it's hard to imagine he's done this, as I stated in my first post, because of the logistical difficulty of getting one particular card into the hands of one particular person.

But what bothers me a lot - a ton - is wondering if that has been the only reason it hasn't happened. Because it sure looks to me like the rest of it is there - the desire to do it, maybe the intent to do it, the skill to do it, possibly even the plotting or trying to figure out how to do it.

And Dan, bravado is definitely a reasonable first read. But it bothers me that it was so unsolicited and that it was a claim of something already done.

My read is that this is something he has at least considered at a level beyond idle musings. And given that he is able to make some really sophisticated alterations, that is a scary thought.

J

[barrysloate]

Joann- Kevin has been a good guy and despite his odd post I will give him the benefit of the doubt. But there are many people with paper restoration skills, and a percentage of them are doing bad things. And many of the cards they have expertly repaired have been submitted to grading services. I have absolutely no idea how many get caught, but I can say with certainty a percentage of them get slabbed. And these cards have circulated around the hobby. Many of them will continue to transact and never be detected, others will be intercepted. It's very unfortunate, but it's out there.

[Leon]

All I will say on this subject is that

Birds of a feather flock together.

(pun intended...sorry Jon (sic) I couldn't resist)...

[barrysloate]

I wish I understood Leon's cryptic message.