CHIEF BENDER Ghost OverPrint Error?? STOPPED

Leon · #1 07-06-2009, 03:43 PM

and this one?

barrysloate · #2 07-06-2009, 04:08 PM

That's an error. When the back of the sheet was printed it was misaligned. That guy wasn't on acid...just too much coffee.

tbob · #3 07-06-2009, 04:12 PM

Just curious, did the bidders know the auction was about to be closed down and given a chance to make a higher "bid" or was it just a bolt from the blue auction ending? Anyone here bidding on it know?

Rob D. · #4 07-06-2009, 04:14 PM

Black light, anyone?

V117collector · #5 07-06-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbob

Just curious, did the bidders know the auction was about to be closed down and given a chance to make a higher "bid" or was it just a bolt from the blue auction ending? Anyone here bidding on it know?

I was bidding and was considering making a decent final bid near the end. No, I don't think I would've won, but who knows??

As for questioning the legitimacy of the ghost print. Well, the new owner will have the burden of proof.

danmckee · #6 07-06-2009, 04:57 PM

I was a very active bidder with a lot of room and I never had a chance

danmckee · #7 07-06-2009, 05:03 PM

Here is the response I got, he just lost a very active customer!

The card is no longer available for sale. Thank you for your interest.

- somersetvelvet

rebelsart · #8 07-06-2009, 05:14 PM

I would agree with my T206 friend Dan McKee that the seller left a lot of $,$$$ on the table by ending this auction early.

Back in January 2002 a friend of Scott Brockelman won a T206 Honus Wagner card with upside down overprint of Doolin on the front of the card. I have the image but not sure how to post pictures on this new forum. If someone wants to email me for the pic maybe they can post the picture.

While the front overprints are rare, I believe they are legitimate.
Regards,
Art M.

tedzan · #9 07-06-2009, 05:14 PM

Thanks for showing your Mullaney....as I knew you would. However, it is not a "Front-on-Front" example.

The 6-color inking on the fronts took time for the ink to dry. Whereas, the backs were pre-printed.

TED Z

fkw · #10 07-06-2009, 07:04 PM

My Guess...

The card looks to have been (in an album or storage box?) then got wet with something and the card facing it was upside down transferred ink to the other card opposite it.

This is no way a print scrap or print defect IMO since the image of Bender is reversed. The only way it was done at the printers is as a wet ink transfer.

The Q is how/when did the ink transfer from the other card/sheet? At the printer or many years later in a collection that got wet?

Exhibitman · #11 07-06-2009, 10:29 PM

There is no need to resort to exotic explanations when a simpler one is readily applicable.

The Bender portrait is a mirror image of the actual card. That rules out all printing explanations involving double prints on the sheet and all but guarantees it was a wet sheet transfer. A really cool wet sheet transfer but still "just" a wet sheet transfer.

FrankWakefield · #12 07-06-2009, 10:49 PM

Ahhh... but what would William of Occam have said about the centering of the transferred image onto the underlying image... that to have been sheets lined up like that would have been near impossible, it would have had to have been a card on card situation.

tbob · #13 07-06-2009, 11:58 PM

Courtesy of Art here is the Wagner/Doolin

ethicsprof · #14 07-07-2009, 01:33 AM

Frank Wakefield,
are you saying that a razor was used in the card to card?
Sorry, just can't avoid talking philosophy.

best,
barry

Exhibitman · #15 07-07-2009, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

Ahhh... but what would William of Occam have said about the centering of the transferred image onto the underlying image... that to have been sheets lined up like that would have been near impossible, it would have had to have been a card on card situation.

Probably that since no one has ever seen a T206 sheet, any statements about the impossibility of the cards lining up when one sheet is rotated 180 degrees are purely speculative.

FrankWakefield · #16 07-07-2009, 07:48 AM

No sir.

Cards are printed on a sheet, somewhere out there on the sheet. The cards are on the sheet with the expectation that they will be cut apart.

The precision of the distance from the outermost card's printed frame on the sheet to the border of the sheet would be less than the precision of a finished, cut card's printed frame to its edge.

Print something on the center of a piece of paper with your pc and printer, twice. Then lay one atop the other, face to face, lining up the sheets, and see if the images align.

Then, cut the two images out with scissors leaving a T206 size border around the images, and now lay them face to face. I 'speculate' that the second exercise will result in much better alignment.

rdixon1208 · #17 07-06-2009, 04:14 PM

Would you guys that have more experience please tell me what you think happened to the back of this card. Is it possible for the ink to bleed through or do you think that two cards were stacked and the ink transfered?

tbob · #18 07-06-2009, 04:17 PM

Robert, I think that was a wet ink transfer when two sheets are placed together. This does happen. The Bender front appearing upside down on the front of the Lake is bizarre.

Anthony S. · #19 07-06-2009, 04:28 PM

Gotta believe if you had to bat against that thing on the mound it would be very disconcerting.

FrankWakefield · #20 07-06-2009, 04:33 PM

I agree with TBob on the Bonner Obak card.

Golly, guys. Imagine two uncut completely printed sheets of cards, fronts and backs perfect. What are the odds of laying a wet sheet face down on the face of another, and lining it up perfectly... look at those frame lines.

What is MUCH more likely is that the finished cards were placed face to face. And lots of transfers could occur from water damage... Those cards could have been in a kid's pocket and he sat in water or was in the rain... to be lined up so well is much more likely AFTER the cards had been cut.

I'm not saying there aren't printers' errors or printers' scraps out there, but that just doesn't look like it to me. Intelligent black light comment, thanks for that.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Recent Pickup: Chief Bender Glass Negative	Archive	Net54baseball Sports (Primarily) Vintage Memorabilia Forum incl. Game Used	9	07-06-2016 08:50 PM
Chief Bender Cabinet Card?	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	83	06-16-2009 01:09 PM
WTB Chief Bender cards wanted	Archive	Tobacco (T) cards, except T206 B/S/T	2	04-19-2009 11:55 AM
Wanted :D359 /E104-1 Chief Bender	Archive	Pre-WWII cards (E, D, M, etc..) B/S/T	2	11-14-2007 04:07 AM
T206 Ghost Overprint of Walter Johnson ?	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	6	03-13-2004 11:06 AM