THE 50 HR CLUB...a very telling list.....

[philliesphan]

It's too early to tell on Pujols. No one is arguing his greatness -- but he still doesn't have enough years in the majors to qualify for the HOF.

Howard is not a PED user. There are a lot of question marks on the bottom half of the list, but we should not forget that there can be strong home run hitters today...and not associate everyone on that list with steroids.

[ScottFandango]

i just drew the line on the chronological list....its not a list of users or non users.....some on the bottom list ARE clean...

PS I really enjoyed reading through this thread...great comments...

[FrankWakefield]

I think Pujols is a genuine ballplayer.

Howard in the same sentence with Pujols, no way. He's a good, solid player. But Howard has 199 home runs in 6 seasons, 565 RBI's, hitting .276, OBP of .375, slugging .582.

And you put that up there with 351 home runs in 9 seasons, 1062 RBI's, .335 average, .428 OBP, and .631 slugging. If Howard hits about .460 each of his next 3 seasons, bangs out about 51 home runs and 160+ RBI's each of those seasons, then he'll reach where Pujols is now. Not gonna happen.

[philliesphan]

Frank-

In no way was I trying to compare Ryan Howard's stats to Albert Pujols. They are sluggers of a different class. Scott was talking about Pujols...and I, as a Phillies Phan, wanted to bring up one of the non-PED users on the bottom half of the list.

To be clear on Howard, though -- it is a tad unfair to say he's played "6 seasons". He was a September call-up in 2003, played half of 2004, and has only played half of 2009. He only has enough games under his belt equivalent to four full seasons. Pujols, on the other hand, has played 8 full seasons coming into this year.

[FrankWakefield]

Hey Marc,

You are right about Howard only having a tiny piece of that first season, that does make the comparison slightly unfair. He hits home runs to all fields, and averages one HR every 12.1 at bats. That is better than Pujols' one HR every 13.9 at bats. I think I'm still about right on Howard needing to hit .460 with about 50 home runs to catch up.

Would it not be neat to see the two on the same team, I'd bat Albert 3rd and Ryan 4th. And I'd let the pitcher hit 8th....

I saw Joseph Blanton pitch once during his senior year in high school, he attended the little high school here in my home town. So I cheer your Phils on from time to time!!

[glynparson]

That Pujols used PED's and If we could bet and have god give us the answer I would put my whole collection on the line that he absolutley used. In fact according to Peter Gammons on Mike & Mike about a year ago one of Albert's best friends, a personal trainer of his I believe, was caught with PED's. I always hoped certain players were clean that ended up dirty, so I understand his fans burying their heads in the sand and pretending he is above questioning. Also on Howard he tied the Reading Phillies, I live in the Reading area, Minor league home run record in a partial season. Luzinski is tie with Ryan, also Howard hit balls further then anyone I ever saw hit them at Reading Municipal Stadium, some of the older fans have told me The Bull was the only other player to reach some of the distances Howard did. So he may or may not have done PED's but to me I have much more doubt about him then Pujols.

[DeanH3]

I too would not be surprised if Pujols used PEDs. It's hard to compare pictures of Pujols when he came up to now like we do with Bonds and Sosa, skinny rookies to ripped record setting vets. Pujols came up when PED's were used extensively and maybe he was already using them in the minors making him big as a rookie. I have always wondered about players who wear really baggy uniforms, Bonds, Manny, Pujols, McGwire and Sosa. What are those guys hiding. If it were really "more comfortable" then it would have been done years ago. Maybe these guys don't want Joe Public to see how really ripped they look. I really do hope Pujols is clean. Baseball needs a legit superstar but come on, with what we know now, do you really expect Pujols to be clean?

[packs]

Albert came out today and said he'd repay the Cardinals every penny of the contract money he's ever received if he was ever found to be cheating. I never heard anyone else say such a thing that comes close to that conviction besides Lance Armstrong.

As for Griffey, you could just watch the guy swing and know he could hit 50. Clean player in my opinion.

[ScottFandango]

Pujols didnt "toil" in the minors...he made a short 1 year stay and went from single A to the AAA world series MVP in one year....he never needed to do steroids.....he was the most dominant player (by far) at ever step since he was 12 (when he hit a ball 450 ft)

In hindsight, Steroid usage becomes obvious on a personal timeline...a player has a spike for a few years, then falls off fast....a player becomes Huge seemingly overnight....In pujols timeline, there is not place where steroids would make sense....

and as far as his baggy clothes, if you ever saw his biceps, they are a bit flabby... large and thick but NOT cut AT ALL....doesnt even look like he works out...Bonds and Mcgwire looked like Muscle Mag cover freaks!


In this day and age, the best players are going to be under suspicion, which is unfortunate for the clean few......we may be watching the best right handed hitter EVER (Bill James thinks so) so lets enjoy!