Possible newly discovered T205 variation

marcdelpercio · #1 09-16-2009, 05:42 PM

Joshua,
As purely a back variation regardless of brand advertisement, the "no quotes" variation IS scarcer. Your numbers noted that you have tracked 29 Polar Bear backs (which are all the "no quotes" version) and 22, 17, 11, and 13 respectively of the other backs, all of which have the quotes. So the total of "no quotes" versus "quotes" is 29 to 63, thus making it 2-3 times scarcer as a back variation.

Wite3 · #2 09-16-2009, 10:47 PM

Oh, you are correct when you look at it that way...I stand corrected.

Joshua

Sterling Sports Auctions · #3 09-19-2009, 10:37 PM

If you want to pay a premium for the card it is your right whether it is a variation or what ever you think. If some book tells you it is a variation makes you feel better then you have a fight. If you own some of these cards you obviously keep the fight up to keep them in the forefront.

I currently own 25% of all the T202 backs of a certain variation that I have been able to track. Not many seem to give a rats ass about them but I don't care, I can buy them cheaper when I see them and then maybe some day if I want to sell them I will make more noise about them and hopefully it will raise awareness and drive the prices up.

It all comes down to each individuals wants, needs, and perceptions.

Lee

asoriano · #4 09-20-2009, 11:57 AM

In my opinion, the Doc White "quotes" and "no quotes" shouldn't really command much of a premium.

I know of three other T205's in the set that exhibit the same type of "error". These examples range from missing quotation marks to no parenthesis added in the text. I've taken these into account, but I never thought they would demand much of a premium or become recognized as new variations.

As far as the Mathewson Cycle "variation", that card is found with only one back. It shouldn't be added to the Master Set until a "37-1" example surfaces on a different advertising back OR with the correct stats listed on the Cycle back. Just my two cents.

Nice find, nonetheless.

Edited to add: Josh, there is a HLC Bates on eBay right now.

marcdelpercio · #5 09-20-2009, 05:29 PM

Turner,
Would you mind sharing the other three variations that you have discovered? Regardless of anybody else's opinion, I DO consider these cards variations and would like to add them to my collection.

To those who insist that both versions of a variation must appear with the same back in order to legitimately be considered a "variation", could you tell me what cards in the T205 set you consider to be true variations? On the vast majority of the T205 variations I am aware of, both versions DO NOT appear with the same back. Some appear with more than one back, but those backs are still exclusive to their respective variations. If we checklist the set in that way, it will be 10-15 cards smaller than what is currently recognized.

To reiterate my feelings on the Doc White "variation", I do not believe that either version will be extremely valuable as both seem to be relatively easy to find. However, I do believe that there will eventually be a modest premium attached to the "no quotes" version as I believe that most collectors (at least set completists like myself) will feel that this is a legitimate variation and, by Joshua's research and tracking numbers, this version appears to be about twice as scarce as the "quotes" version.

asoriano · #6 09-20-2009, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marcdelpercio

Turner,
Would you mind sharing the other three variations that you have discovered?

Hi Marc,

I can tell you two of the three:

Edward Barger: No parenthesis around "Cy" in first line of bio (I've only seen it on the Partial "B" variation, not the Full "B")

"Germany" Schaefer: no quotes around Germany

Eggoman · #7 12-07-2016, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asoriano

Hi Marc,

I can tell you two of the three:

Edward Barger: No parenthesis around "Cy" in first line of bio (I've only seen it on the Partial "B" variation, not the Full "B")

"Germany" Schaefer: no quotes around Germany

I have been looking for these 2 back variations to include in my own "Master Set" - (whatever THAT means!)

Although my search has admittedly NOT been exhaustive, I have NOT seen these variations either... Are they specific to a particular brand of cigarettes???

Matt · #8 09-20-2009, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by asoriano

As far as the Mathewson Cycle "variation", that card is found with only one back. It shouldn't be added to the Master Set until a "37-1" example surfaces on a different advertising back OR with the correct stats listed on the Cycle back. Just my two cents.

So, the O'Hara and Demmitt St Louis variations don't count towards a T206 set because they are only found with PB backs?

marcdelpercio · #9 09-20-2009, 08:13 PM

Thanks Turner,
Guess I will keep searching for that third one

Tcards-Please · #10 09-21-2009, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt

So, the O'Hara and Demmitt St Louis variations don't count towards a T206 set because they are only found with PB backs?

I guess there seems to be a double standard regarding this issue. Not quite sure why there seems to be one standard for the T206 PB variations, but a similar variation with the T205's brings a totally different response. I'm trying to figure the reasoning, could someone please explain? Don't want to beat a dead horse with this one, but would like to understand the thought process for the difference.

r/
Frank

Matt · #11 09-21-2009, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T's please

I guess there seems to be a double standard regarding this issue. Not quite sure why there seems to be one standard for the T206 PB variations, but a similar variation with the T205's brings a totally different response. I'm trying to figure the reasoning, could someone please explain? Don't want to beat a dead horse with this one, but would like to understand the thought process for the difference.

r/
Frank

Frank - by the existing and established hobby definitions, the White, Matty, O'Hara and Demitt are all variations and should be check-listed as part of a master set. Some here perhaps are arguing theoretically if there was no already long standing defined standards. I don't see why an error being caught in between back print runs (instead of mid back run) or being on the back and not the front should make a difference, even in theory, but we're all entitled to our opinions.

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