19th century " Holy Grail "

ElCabron · #1 10-07-2009, 01:02 PM

I think most of us answered the original question. I didn't even see the modifications mentioned later. In fact, the stipulations added seem very contradictory to the original question, in my opinion.

In the original post we are asked if there are simply too many "extreme rarities" for any one card to stand alone. Then later we are told it would have to be a "special player from a classic set that is available enough to be collectible."

If a card is "available enough to be collectible" it is automatically NOT a Holy Grail card in my opinion. That's one reason the Mantle and Wagner are both NOT Holy Grail cards. Might be collectible and desirable, but a true Holy Grail card should be nearly impossible. Not impossible. But NEARLY impossible.

Maybe I have a different understanding of the term "Holy Grail" than most. I am unfamiliar with the legend that tells of King Arthur and the knights of the Round Table and their quest to find one of 80 or so examples of the Holy Grail.

Sir Lancelot: OMG! You'll never believe what I picked up in the last SCP Auction!
King Arthur: Wow! Sounds exciting. What it is? A one-of-a-kind item?
Sir Lancelot: Even better! It's a Holy Grail! I was the underbidder on the last 4 that came up for auction, but now I finally have a Holy Grail of my own!
King Arthur: Congrats, buddy! Yeah, I'm looking to upgrade my Holy Grail and there's a nice PSA 4 in the next online auction to close. Like you and I, the auction that's selling it is LEGENDARY!
Sir Lancelot: ROFLMAO!!!
Guinevere: I'd do just about ANYTHING to, I mean "for" anyone brave enough to find the only example of the only card of baseball's first superstar.
Sir Lancelot: Hey, um, I gotta split, Arthur. I'm pretty sure the Holy Grail I just bought was touched up and the images in the auction catalog were doctored since I bought it from SCP. I need to replace it. I think I'll head to the east coast to track down a lead on a Jim Creighton card I heard about. I know, it's no Holy Grail, but still pretty damn cool and far more important than most collectors realize. I might be interested in one of your Holy Grail dupes if I can't get the Creighton. Take good care of that wife of yours, friend, while you still can.
King Arthur: Take good care of my wife? While I still can? WTF???
Sir Lancelot: Um, what I mean is, uh, you never know what can happen in this crazy world. Look at it this way, if anything ever happened to you...or, worst-case, if anything happened to your wife, not like dying or anything, but if she wasn't around any more for whatever reason, at least you'd still have that Holy Grail of yours to keep you company. So you've got that going for you. Which is nice.
King Arthur: Okay, well, see ya, Lancey (said with Bush-like giggle). By the way, what the hell is "baseball" and where is this "east coast" you speak of?
Sir Lancelot (galloping off, voice fading): So long, sucker!

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaannddddd.....scene.

Anyway, I hope this little mini-play gets my point across: It might make you feel like a king to own what most consider a Holy Grail, but you're one of many, and the guy with the real Holy Grail is probably sleeping with your wife.

Shame on you, Corey!!!

-Ryan

barrysloate · #2 10-07-2009, 01:28 PM

He's sleeping with my wife?

felada · #3 10-07-2009, 03:13 PM

the problem is that the mantle and wagner transcend the hobby. even non-collectors are aware of them and their value. there are really no 19th century cards that fit that criteria. I would offer up the Duke Delahanty as a possibility to the original post though. Great image, rare but not impossible to acquire, and an iconic player with very few issued cards.

E93 · #4 10-07-2009, 04:30 PM

I think when you move to 19th century Holy Grail cards, extreme rarity to a much greater degree than the Wagner or Mantle goes without saying. If the Holy Grail must have 50-75 known copies like the Wagner, then you immediately eliminate 99% of the cards that probably first come to mind for the vast majority of 19th century collectors.

I would still go with the Anson, primarily due to being in the most popular and widely collected set and being arguably the top 19th century player. But I probably would not eliminate the Just So Cy Young just because only one is known. That would be a sort of definition of Holy Grail in some respects. And Cy Young is somebody who is widely known outside the hobby, due the award named after him. Most avid baseball fans today probably could not name two 19th century hall of famers for what that is worth.

My rank would be:
1. N172 Anson in uniform
2. Just So Cy Young
3. 4BH Kelly

Honorable mention: N167 Ewing

E93 · #5 10-07-2009, 04:32 PM

I think requiring some minimum quantity of know examples or collectibility for "Holy Grail" status is counterintuitive to the title.
JimB

Leon · #6 10-07-2009, 06:57 PM

Upon further reflection I have to agree that the qualifier of the Holy Grail having a sufficient quantity to be collectible is a bit ironic, at least. So if we are saying "What is your Holy Grail of 19th Century cards, regardless of rarity", which is probably the better way of saying it, then mine becomes the Just So Cy Young. That is the card I would take over any other one, not only from the 19th Century, but any baseball card; period. regards

Wesley · #7 10-07-2009, 07:37 PM

If we are not responding to the question, then my pick is the 1914 Baltimore News Babe Ruth card.

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