New evidence of T206 expanded 350/460 series cards

[jimonym]

Dave,
I have a couple uncut sheets of Piedmont cigarette boxes (circa 1915-1920) that the seller told me were found in a old house under three layers of flooring. Usually I'm skeptical, but in this case I actually believed him. So, I guess, always be attentive when doing renovations. Maybe one year an uncut sheet of T206s will walk into the National...stranger things have happened.

Ted,
You raise some interesting points. Let me think about it and try to pull some thoughts together.

[cfc1909]

there are several players in the 206 set with 4 different cards but only the prince got FIVE.

[tedzan]

Could you please describe your uncut sheets of Piedmont cigarette boxes. Are they labeled L & M, Factory 42 N.C.....and,
what are the dimensions of these sheets ?

Also, how many Piedmont packs are printed on a sheet ? ?


Thanks,

TED Z

[sreader3]

Lee,

I am aware that the superprints come with Cycle 350 and Cycle 460.

What I was trying to say is that the superprints are possible with the four backs that otherwise only appear on 350-only subjects: AB350 with frame, BL 350, CB and Cycle 350.

And the superprints are NOT possible with the one back that only appears on 350/460 RP subjects: AB350 no frame.

That is why I am surprised that the superprints are possible with the apple green Sovereign 350 (which otherwise appears only on 350/460 RP subjects) and are not, as far as we know, possible with the forest green Sovereign 350 (which appears only on 350-only subjects).

Scot





Scot

[jimonym]

Ted,
Below is a picture of one of the sheets. They measure roughly 17 inches by 33 inches. They are for Factory 240, 1st District of Pennsylvania. The factory predominantly produced little cigars, and Napoleon and Recruit brand little cigars from that factory were for a time packaged with T207 cards. But all that was before these sheets were produced, because they are definitely post-ATC dissolution. That is obvious because of the Liggett and Myers designation on the packages. They are 10-count cardboard slide and shell type.

[E93]

Cool sheet! Interesting thread, though I must admit, it is making me dizzy.
JimB

[tedzan]

Great sheet....thanks for sharing it with us.

It appears to me that a complete sheet comprises of an array of 4 x 12 Piedmont packs. If so, then the top row of this sheet is cut short,
since the 12 fronts of the uppermost packs are missing ?

Regards,

TED Z

[teetwoohsix]

I'm trying to keep up with this,and I just want to make sure I'm following-the six cards with the Sovereign 460 backs(Chance,Chase portrait,Chase dark cap,Mathewson dark cap,Evers,and Cobb portrait red background)are more scarce than the same cards with the 350 and the 350/460 Sovereign backs?By the way Ted,you are tremendous with the detail-very impressive!!!

[ethicsprof]

Ted Z,
I was in good shape and not quite as dizzy as Prof. Blumenthal until
this discussion of the 4X12 array of Piedmont packs(which by the way
are beauts).
I was thinking that your discovery of the the number 6 as a key code for the
T206, given its consistent and persistent divisability factor, would lead us to
a discussion of the number 6 being the key number for the T206 printed sheets of cards.
Are you thinking the packs play a key role somehow or was this just an interesting excursus.
great work Ted et al
Best,
barry

[tedzan]

You understand this scenario correctly....the 6 super-prints are significantly more difficult to find with the SOVEREIGN 460 backs
than the SOVEREIGN 350 backs.

I can say this from my experience in putting together an all-SOVEREIGN set. Especially, the Red Cobb. It took me 4 years to find
this card with the SOVEREIGN 460 back.

Only 4 such red Cobb's have shown up in recent surveys of over 20,000 randomly sampled T206 cards.


Regards,

TED Z

[tedzan]

Your......"Are you thinking the packs play a key role somehow or was this just an interesting excursus."

No....packs per se do not, but Jamie's sheet can reveal to us the following:

1st....Jamie's sheet may be significant to our understanding how T206's were printed. Jamie noted that it is 17" x 33".....and, if my
observation is correct that this sheet is partially cut down; therefore, the missing portion of it amounts to a 2" strip across the top
of the sheet. Based on the missing 12 Piedmont tobacco pack's front and side panels.

Such a complete uncut sheet would originally be 19" wide. This width coincides with the printing press track width that existed in
the early 20th Century lithography presses.

2nd....Until otherwise noted, let's examine a complete sheet measuring 19" x 33". American Litho. (ALC) can print an array of T206's
that are 12 across x 13 rows.....or 156 cards. Interestingly, this is the exact number of subjects in the 150 series of T206's.
Anyhow, we know that many cards were vertically repeated in the printing process; therefore, we have no way of knowing exactly
how many rows were double (or triple) printed.

3rd....Do not despair my friend, SIX is still the basic denominator in ALC's design of these T206 cards. When this design is translated
into the real world of printing them, multiples of 6 will result.

T-Rex TED

[teetwoohsix]

Thanks Ted,I enjoyed your thread and your research-and very much appreciate your time.You must have an awesome set!!!!Sincerely,Clayton

[ethicsprof]

I get it. Very well said--and i must say quite a surprise as i didn't see the
connections coming. Your EE background sure comes in handy!

No despair here, ole friend---just eager to see the Rise of 6.

best,

barry

[parkerj33]

Ted,
It looks to me like the left side of the sheet is also cut off...so isn't the full sheet longer than 33 inches by at least a couple of inches? It seems that either they used the sheet as is (17x33) and just scrapped the partially printed items, or the sheet was previously cut down from (~19 x ~36) sometime after it left the factory.

Thanks for the info,
Jim