Need Help Identifying RPPC

[bmarlowe1]

Jeremy - nothing you have said makes any sense. I can't help you if you can't see the difference between a horizontal line and an upside down "U". The chin structure of these 2 guys is overall very different - I just picked up on the most easily seen characteristic. There is nothing about the angle of the left photo I posted and your photo that would make Bay's right ear look smaller in mine than on yours.

>>"The RPPC is further away than your up close mug shots...Bring it in as a mug shot and it becomes a bigger nose like the mug shots."

The "grainy" photo of Bay I posted (which is still much more clear than what you posted) is from a team photo and was taken from "far away". In either case, this makes absolutely no difference with respect to the any of the issues raised.

The subject of which you speak is called "photogrammetry" - I suggest you obtain "the Manual of Photogrammetry" (available from the ASPRS website) and spend some time studying - this is a science that does not lend itself to shooting from the hip. Another helpful though less rigorous book is called "Photo Fakery" by Dino Brugioni - founder of the CIA's photo analysis division - it has some nice basics on facial identification.

After 2 Library of Congress photo projects and numerous articles on this subject - I am at least right about one thing - this isn't Harry Bay.

The photos below were taken from virtually the same angle and have been properly resized based on eyeball spacing.

[Brian Campf]

Deleted

[DixieBaseball]

Mark - Thanks for your insight and I appreciate you taking the time to give your opinion.

Brian - Thanks as well...

I still would be interested in hearing form anyone that recognizes 309ft on either the left or right field wall from the 1907-15 era. I was hopeful that the number might stand out to someone familar with their team's favorite home field, etc.

Still many questions to research, such as what team, what field, what date, and what player, and is it Minor or Major leagues...

Thanks

[slidekellyslide]

If it weren't for that darn sweater!!! If it's minor league you may never find out...photos of minor league ballparks from that era seem even rarer than hen's teeth. I've only found three photos of Lincoln's Antelope park..only two show the outfield fence...and these photos came from a family photo album. I still have never found a single photo of Landis Field which Lincoln played in from 1922-1939 except for photos of the U of Nebraska team playing a game there that were published in the school yearbook.

Newspapers of the day just didn't dispatch photographers to minor league games and much of the photography from that era we have of minor leaguers come from the fans in the stands.

[tedzan]

Jeremy and Mark

Perhaps, the "pouting" expression on the post card photo and the apparent difference in ages of this photo and
Mark's two pictures of Bay are throwing us off.

However, the all important "ear test" indicates a very close resemblance of all 3 pictures being the same person.

Just adding my 2 cents.

TED Z

[DixieBaseball]

Ted - I saw the same thing as it appeared the RPPC Guy had some tobacco in both sides of his bottom lip or a pouting expression as you mentioned. I will say that the grainy photo of Bay Mark used for comparison and the clear nice angle shot could be some 7 years difference. This photo was shot just after 1900 time frame as it is the same photo depicted on Harry's 1904-06 Fan Craze card. I look at this photo and I imagine his eyes shifted to the side and up as depicted in the RPPC. Compare this photo with Mark's 2 photo's and I see differences... Especially if you put this one side by side with his 2 and I could argue that this photo of Bay shows the skinnier nose as opposed to the larger nose of Bay in the grainy picture. Maybe we can get all 4 side by side. Interesting.

[DixieBaseball]

I don't know about Facial recognition, U-Lines, straight lines, CIA facial probing, etc. - But I do think that expressions on faces can completely distort viewpoints. This thought reminds me of my identical Twin boys who over the last 6 years of their life have been told they look sometimes like me, sometimes like my wife, and then the same folks say the opposite months later. It all comes back to one thing. Expressions. We have at least dozens of expressions, depending on mood, what's in our mouth, angles, distance, etc. When I look at all 4 of these photo's, I see a different Bay. If I didn't know any better, I would say the 4th Bay photo looks like a ball or someone's fist hit him in the bridge of the nose. The Second Bay (Fan Craze) Photo looks more like the RPPC Nose than the 4th Bay photo. 2 more cents...

[bmarlowe1]

Ted

The ear test alone shows him to conclusively not be Harry Bay. These ears are very different in size relative to each person's head, as is clear from the sided by side photos. If you don't see it - try measuring it. Your looking for a ratio - relative to head size, or relative to the length of the nose from bridge to tip.

Also the ears are very different in size relative to each other. If these are photos of the same person, since they are taken from virtually the same angle - you can properly match them by first matching the space between the eyeballs (assuming neither is cross-eyed) - then everything should line up. As can be seen - nothing lines up.

They are also diffrerent in shape - especially at the lobe:

[bmarlowe1]

>>I will say that the grainy photo of Bay Mark used for comparison and the clear nice angle shot could be some 7 years difference. ..

The "grainy" photo was 1904, the clear mug-shot was 1903.

The points I referred to remain almost unchanged with age and are little affected by facial expression. Things like ear shape, jaw shape, and size ratios of facial characteristics do not change over time.

[DixieBaseball]

Mark - I think the photo is too inconclusive to compare to the RPPC for the ear. Reason being is the grainyness of it at the lobe. I don't see how you can really see the lobe that cleary on the Broad Nosed Grainy pic. What is strange is Bay's Fan Craze picture looks very little like the photo you keep using for comparison purposes. If all we are looking at is the ear lobe now, then it is way too inconlclusive due to grainy-ness, shadow, etc. You had mentioned the nose in earlier posts, but now that we can see Bay in his Fan Craze photo, I think we can throw the nose argument out as it appears Bay's nose was swollen on the bridge for some reason in that photo. These 2 Bay Photo's were take within a few years of each other :