Need Help Identifying RPPC

[slidekellyslide]

If it weren't for that darn sweater!!! If it's minor league you may never find out...photos of minor league ballparks from that era seem even rarer than hen's teeth. I've only found three photos of Lincoln's Antelope park..only two show the outfield fence...and these photos came from a family photo album. I still have never found a single photo of Landis Field which Lincoln played in from 1922-1939 except for photos of the U of Nebraska team playing a game there that were published in the school yearbook.

Newspapers of the day just didn't dispatch photographers to minor league games and much of the photography from that era we have of minor leaguers come from the fans in the stands.

[tedzan]

Jeremy and Mark

Perhaps, the "pouting" expression on the post card photo and the apparent difference in ages of this photo and
Mark's two pictures of Bay are throwing us off.

However, the all important "ear test" indicates a very close resemblance of all 3 pictures being the same person.

Just adding my 2 cents.

TED Z

[DixieBaseball]

Ted - I saw the same thing as it appeared the RPPC Guy had some tobacco in both sides of his bottom lip or a pouting expression as you mentioned. I will say that the grainy photo of Bay Mark used for comparison and the clear nice angle shot could be some 7 years difference. This photo was shot just after 1900 time frame as it is the same photo depicted on Harry's 1904-06 Fan Craze card. I look at this photo and I imagine his eyes shifted to the side and up as depicted in the RPPC. Compare this photo with Mark's 2 photo's and I see differences... Especially if you put this one side by side with his 2 and I could argue that this photo of Bay shows the skinnier nose as opposed to the larger nose of Bay in the grainy picture. Maybe we can get all 4 side by side. Interesting.

[DixieBaseball]

I don't know about Facial recognition, U-Lines, straight lines, CIA facial probing, etc. - But I do think that expressions on faces can completely distort viewpoints. This thought reminds me of my identical Twin boys who over the last 6 years of their life have been told they look sometimes like me, sometimes like my wife, and then the same folks say the opposite months later. It all comes back to one thing. Expressions. We have at least dozens of expressions, depending on mood, what's in our mouth, angles, distance, etc. When I look at all 4 of these photo's, I see a different Bay. If I didn't know any better, I would say the 4th Bay photo looks like a ball or someone's fist hit him in the bridge of the nose. The Second Bay (Fan Craze) Photo looks more like the RPPC Nose than the 4th Bay photo. 2 more cents...

[bmarlowe1]

Ted

The ear test alone shows him to conclusively not be Harry Bay. These ears are very different in size relative to each person's head, as is clear from the sided by side photos. If you don't see it - try measuring it. Your looking for a ratio - relative to head size, or relative to the length of the nose from bridge to tip.

Also the ears are very different in size relative to each other. If these are photos of the same person, since they are taken from virtually the same angle - you can properly match them by first matching the space between the eyeballs (assuming neither is cross-eyed) - then everything should line up. As can be seen - nothing lines up.

They are also diffrerent in shape - especially at the lobe:

[bmarlowe1]

>>I will say that the grainy photo of Bay Mark used for comparison and the clear nice angle shot could be some 7 years difference. ..

The "grainy" photo was 1904, the clear mug-shot was 1903.

The points I referred to remain almost unchanged with age and are little affected by facial expression. Things like ear shape, jaw shape, and size ratios of facial characteristics do not change over time.

[DixieBaseball]

Mark - I think the photo is too inconclusive to compare to the RPPC for the ear. Reason being is the grainyness of it at the lobe. I don't see how you can really see the lobe that cleary on the Broad Nosed Grainy pic. What is strange is Bay's Fan Craze picture looks very little like the photo you keep using for comparison purposes. If all we are looking at is the ear lobe now, then it is way too inconlclusive due to grainy-ness, shadow, etc. You had mentioned the nose in earlier posts, but now that we can see Bay in his Fan Craze photo, I think we can throw the nose argument out as it appears Bay's nose was swollen on the bridge for some reason in that photo. These 2 Bay Photo's were take within a few years of each other :

[bmarlowe1]

The tip (lower end - wher the nostrils are) of Bay's nose is wide in my "grainy" photo (which is actually quite clear in detail) and the 1903 clear photo - in fact it is unusually wide. It is also wide in another Cle team photo I have - but you are in such a state of self-delusion I won't waste tome posting it. BTW it is also wide in the fan-craze photo - I have a very clear version of it in Slocum's book. Pehaps he suffered from some strange chronic end of nose swelling that cured itself when your photo was taken.

Also in the fan-craze photo - what happened to the big right earlobe - where did it go?

[DixieBaseball]

Mark- If you could resize the fan craze photo and put it next to your grainy photo, I think you will see 2 different size noses down the bridge.How do you explain that ? Not dilusioned here... I just can see that the Fan Craze photo nose and the Grainy photo nose look different. Size them and put them next to each other...

You asked where did the Big Ear lobe go ? The angle does not permit to see the entire ear lobe. Look at his other ear and you can see the big ear lobe on his left side in the Fan Craze photo...

[bmarlowe1]

>>>You asked where did the Big Ear lobe go ? The angle does not permit to see the entire ear lobe. Look at his other ear and you can see the big ear lobe on his left side in the Fan Craze photo

Yes exactly - he is looking absolutely straight at you and you can see his left lobe but not his right lobe - what does that tell you? It tells you Bay's ears are not symmetrical and that he has a very small lobe (if any) on his right side - just like the "grainy" photo (amazing, huh?) and completely unlike your photo.

This ear asymmetry (and the wide lower part of his nose) is also seen in another 1906 Bay photo below.

BTW - compare the left ears in my "grainy" photo and yours, with both heads turned slightly to their left by about the same amount - not only does your guy's left ear stick out a lot more - but the angle with respect to the head is different.

>>>I think you will see 2 different size noses down the bridge...

I don't see that, and I never said anything about the bridge of his nose. The bottom/tip of his nose is very wide. It's is easily seen in the 1903 photo and the 1904 photo. If you go to the Boston Pub Library and take a look at the 1902 Cle team headshot composite - you will see the fan craze photo without the darkroom softening applied to it for the card - and you will clearly see his nose is wide at the bottom. Your guy's nose is narrow at the bottom.
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What concerns me here is not you and your photo and what your conclusion may be - I know you are honest and just mistaken. But, the types of arguments you make mirror those made by sellers in a number of fraudulent cases I have seen. This also illustrates why such sellers can always find a buyer.