Is this card really worth that????

Some quotes are incorrect here. Cycles do not carry a premium. They sell for the same amount as a Hassan, Piedmont, AB, HLC, ect. Those of us who buy T205's regularly should know this. If they do carry premiums then I have purchased about 20 of these for 1/2 of what they are worth in the last yr and would like to sell them and double my money.

Until those Cycle Mattys are reslabbed appropriatly we will not have a accurate POP count thus driving a rise in $. Those who don't track sales on these from the past are the ones who will be buying till the market cools drastically.

I would be willing to Pay about $2000-2500 for one in SGC grade 4-5. May be a while till I find one but I can wait. At this time I have some personal issues to attend to but after that is done if anyone has one out there let me know. I think my offer is fair, but then again maybe not. I am sure no one will have one to sell for that.

Also like Calvindog and myself pointed out the most disturbing part is the mysterious 0 feedback high bidder that jacked up the price.

[Mikehealer]

I don't collect T205's and was wondering is there a premium attached to any
of the backs line like there is in the t206's? If so what multiples. Sorry to get
off topic, but just curious.

I don't know the multipuls but here are the ones that carry a premium according to what I have bought in the last couple yrs.

1. Hindu
2. Broadleaf
3. Drum
4. Blanks

AB, and Cycles fluctuate but not more than a normal backed card.

[sox1903wschamp]

DESCRIPTION:
"Shortprinted 1911 T205 Cycle back card of Boston Red Sox player Ed Karger. PSA 5, just a hint of corner wear on this well centered card. The Cycle back is pretty tough in the T205 set and generally commands a 1.5-2X multiplier, making for a tough front/back combination here. Excellent opportunity for the T205 speacialists."

This is straight from the most recent B&L auction. I am not a back collector so the comments contrary to the above from Andrew mean little to me but who is right here? And Andrew, I am not saying your wrong, just curious.

Sorry to take this somewhat off topic to our Matty debate and it maybe with respect to the fairly recent find of Cycle backed T-205's, that time will really tell if there is a premium.

[Matt]

WRT a general Cycle back premium, I think everyone is right - on common cards I have seen little to no premium and on star cards and SPs I have noticed the premium.

[marcdelpercio]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

Some quotes are incorrect here. Cycles do not carry a premium. They sell for the same amount as a Hassan, Piedmont, AB, HLC, ect. Those of us who buy T205's regularly should know this. If they do carry premiums then I have purchased about 20 of these for 1/2 of what they are worth in the last yr and would like to sell them and double my money.

I disagree with this. Cycles and AB do carry a premium (I would estimate about 50%), especially on high grade and/or high dollar cards. The populations of Cycle and AB backs are considerably lower than the other common backs you mentioned. If you are talking about low grade commons, I agree that Cycle and AB will not be significantly more expensive than more common backs although I would expect a small premium. On a top tier HOF like Mathewson, a Cycle or AB back will always command a premium over a Piedmont or Hassan, regardless of the text variation we are discussing.

If this is ther case then I would like to sell all my AB and cycles for the prices they are supposed to be at and not what I paid for them. I bought a Cycle backed Huggins for $89. Guess that should be worth about $300 since I actually paid about $40 less than normall for it via Ebay. I have a POP 1 AB Barger full B SGC 5.5 also that I bought for less than common prices. I think I have one card I paid about $35 more for than normall due to grade, POP, and presentation.

As a matter of a fact I will say that none of you are correct about AB and Cycles due to the fact that I have bought about 20-30 of these in the past 6 months will ZERO premium and a few of these under normal prices. This also holds true that the guys that are asking for the premiums on Ebay and else where still have their cards months after listing because they say the cards have premiums and are asking for them.

I am only saying this because I believe that I have bought more of these T205 specific backs than most of you for the past 6 months to a year. You cant argue the facts (I am sure you guys will though)

Also to adress Mr Steele an auction houses deal is to make the card sound irresistable so that it brings top dollar. That card didn't sell for as much as a normall backed card. So there is a good example to start with.

Here are some links for those AB and Cycle backed cards

Cobb AB

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2006/239.html

Normal grade 6 Cobb

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2008/408.html

Cycle backed Joss

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetail.aspx?lotid=12044

Normal Joss

PSA 4 for $1247, SGC 4 for $975.

heres a blank backed Cobb

http://www.robertedwardauctions.com/.../2009/316.html

So where are the premiums. there are none. The data shows this and this was a quick 10 min search and to type this.

[Brian Weisner]

Hi Andrew,
You can read data anyway you like, but.... The prices for cards in 2006 vs 2008 are not apples to apples.... I am very impressed with the AB's and Cycles you were able to pick up in the past year.... I wish I hadn't filled as many slots in the past 5 years or my set would look a bit higher grade. You should be very happy with your additions as I think you picked them up quite cheap.... Be well Brian


PS I have been collecting rare backs for a long time.... And I wish I had been paying attention to EBay instead of working so hard.

PS 2 Cycle Matty's(37-1) may not be as tough as Hobby no stats, but they are not easy.... Wilhelm "suffered" is very tough.... despite the fact that it comes with 2 different backs, Hassan and Cycle... although I doubt more than 5-6 Cycles exist.....

PS 3 I have a 37-1 Matty.... And I will be interested to see how many come out.....

[sox1903wschamp]

Originally Posted by Pup6913

Also to adress Mr Steele an auction houses deal is to make the card sound irresistable so that it brings top dollar. That card didn't sell for as much as a normall backed card. So there is a good example to start with.

Ahhh yes, auction hyperbole. I am going to agree with you but they are certaintly not in the same ballpark as say, the Goodwins of the world

[tbob]

I put together a T205 set, sold it in the early 90's, then put together the set I have now in the late 90's. I didn't notice any premium for Cycle cards and a slight premium for ABs. The higher premiums were for Broadleaf, Hindu and Drum. I am still one of the minority which thinks the Hindus are the scarcest, most think Drums are toughest. All 4 are tougher than Cycles. That said I have't been buying any T205s in 10 years so what do I know?

Brian you have to look at the market command. In 06' we were not dealing with a depression (recession) as we were starting to experience in 08'. Prices reflect cards selling near or higher then now also.

If I remember I discussed this same situation with another member about his SGC 4 Cobb and why he was asking so much for it. I brought to his attention that there were 2 recent AB backed Cobbs in auction houses and several others in the same grade w/common backs selling for about $500+ less than he was asking for a Piedmont. Seems the card is still for sale and this was in he summer time. All you need to do is a few minutes or research in the web, auction house archives, VCP, Card Pricer, Ebay, ect. to find this info and do the comparisons.

I will arguee this till I can't breath that AB and Cycle backed T205's do not carry a premium. Unless you are buying alot of them instead of one here and there you will not see the amount passing through, and the prices they are going for.

They come in spurts. I bought 15 AB and Cycle backed T205's in grade 4's and higher in about 10 days on Ebay. None sold for more than normal. A few weeks later a couple popped up and they sold for about $10 more than average, then another group showed up and the prices actually were selling for less than average.

Sovereigns come around less than AB and Cycles lately. This makes me wonder.

So I think what we are all trying to get to here is the actuall price that a Matty Cycle should sell for. We all know Hoblitzell is the rarest, followed by what??? Does anyone have that list? That will make a great start for figuring this out. I say an average 4 should bring $1500-$2500 after the hype settles.

If you own one what would you want to sell it for and in what condition is the card? Bet I don't get many honest responses for this question

[marcdelpercio]

Just out of curiosity Andrew, why are you so avidly collecting Cycle and AB backed T205's if you don't feel that they are any scarcer or more valuable than Piedmonts?

One can always find individual data to try to prove a point and no doubt you have probably found some very good deals as you mentioned over the past several months. I think that most who actively collect the T205 set would place a premium on Cycle and AB backed cards. That's of course not to say that every such card will always sell for more than a similar card with a more common back. But overall, I am confident that this will hold true.

P.S. At your suggestion, I did a few minutes of research and checked recent sales on eBay. The last (and only recent) AB card to sell was this common:

http://cgi.ebay.com/1911-T205-Americ...item255639dba2

Note that none of the other SGC 70's of common players on eBay now even have an ASKING price of more than $275.