Dawson only inductee..........

[calvindog]

I think the issue re media exposure is a good point, I agree. But Blyleven still only won 20 games once despite playing on some pretty decent teams. He also only averaged 6.7 strikeouts per 9 innings -- hardly a great ratio. And he made the All-Star team only twice in 22 years. Lots of great players in lousy markets made the All-Star more than twice, right?

In 1979, the year the Pirates won the WS, Blyleven won 12 games in 37 starts and was arguably the third best pitcher on the team. He didn't pitch particularly well in 1987 the year the Twins won it all but I can't blame Blyleven for that as he was old by then.

Really good pitcher, very consistent really good pitcher, sometimes fantastic. But I just don't see him as a player that dominated his era which is my standard to make the HOF.

[Anthony S.]

Originally Posted by calvindog

I think the issue re media exposure is a good point, I agree. But Blyleven still only won 20 games once despite playing on some pretty decent teams. He also only averaged 6.7 strikeouts per 9 innings -- hardly a great ratio. And he made the All-Star team only twice in 22 years. Lots of great players in lousy markets made the All-Star more than twice, right?

In 1979, the year the Pirates won the WS, Blyleven won 12 games in 37 starts and was arguably the third best pitcher on the team. He didn't pitch particularly well in 1987 the year the Twins won it all but I can't blame Blyleven for that as he was old by then.

Really good pitcher, very consistent really good pitcher, sometimes fantastic. But I just don't see him as a player that dominated his era which is my standard to make the HOF.

First of all, I apologize to all the anti-quoters for my multiple transgressions in this thread, but with such specific points being addressed several posts after the post to which I am responding, it just makes it easier to do it this way. Secondly, I should know better than to debate Jeff (I mean that as a compliment, counselor), but here goes.

Two all-star games does seem paltry at first blush. But pitchers aren't voted on by the fans. They're often used to round out rosters in the spirit of throwing a bone to teams with no other viable all-stars, as well as all-star game managers giving preferential treatment to their own players. Consequently, deserving players get left off the roster. Blyleven went 19-7 with a 2.87 era and 1.13 whip for the 1984 Indians. He finished 3rd in the Cy Young voting that year, but didn't make the all-star game. That's a snub.

Same thing in 1989. He went 17-5 with a 2.75 era and 1.12 Whip. He finished 4th in Cy Young voting that year, but once again didn't make the all-star game.

In 1977, he led the AL with a 1.06 whip, which is damn impressive for a pitcher who threw 234 innings that year. He also had a 2.72 era (Tanana led the league at 2.53, which isn't that much better). No all-star game. Among the AL pitchers who did make the squad that year (full season stats): Dave LaRoche with his 8-7 record, 3.51 era, and 17 saves and Jim Slaton, who went 10-14 with a 3.58 era, and 1.37 whip. Once again, Blyleven seems to have been hosed.

The 6.7 career K/9innings ratio is better than Hall of Famers Juan Marichal, Gaylord Perry, Fergie Jenkins, Don Drysdale, Bob Feller, Whitey Ford, Jim Palmer, Catfish Hunter, and Walter Johnson (granted a different era and specious, but I like it). Also better than Kevin Brown, Roy Halliday, and Louisiana Lightnin' Ron Guidry. This could be a much longer list.

As for the 1979 Pirates, I agree that Blyeven, despite his 12-5 record, had a subpar year.

[calvindog]

Originally Posted by Anthony S.

First of all, I apologize to all the anti-quoters for my multiple transgressions in this thread, but with such specific points being addressed several posts after the post to which I am responding, it just makes it easier to do it this way. Secondly, I should know better than to debate Jeff (I mean that as a compliment, counselor), but here goes.

Two all-star games does seem paltry at first blush. But pitchers aren't voted on by the fans. They're often used to round out rosters in the spirit of throwing a bone to teams with no other viable all-stars, as well as all-star game managers giving preferential treatment to their own players. Consequently, deserving players get left off the roster. Blyleven went 19-7 with a 2.87 era and 1.13 whip for the 1984 Indians. He finished 3rd in the Cy Young voting that year, but didn't make the all-star game. That's a snub.

Same thing in 1989. He went 17-5 with a 2.75 era and 1.12 Whip. He finished 4th in Cy Young voting that year, but once again didn't make the all-star game.

In 1977, he led the AL with a 1.06 whip, which is damn impressive for a pitcher who threw 234 innings that year. He also had a 2.72 era (Tanana led the league at 2.53, which isn't that much better). No all-star game. Among the AL pitchers who did make the squad that year (full season stats): Dave LaRoche with his 8-7 record, 3.51 era, and 17 saves and Jim Slaton, who went 10-14 with a 3.58 era, and 1.37 whip. Once again, Blyleven seems to have been hosed.

The 6.7 career K/9innings ratio is better than Hall of Famers Juan Marichal, Gaylord Perry, Fergie Jenkins, Don Drysdale, Bob Feller, Whitey Ford, Jim Palmer, Catfish Hunter, and Walter Johnson (granted a different era and specious, but I like it). Also better than Kevin Brown, Roy Halliday, and Louisiana Lightnin' Ron Guidry. This could be a much longer list.

As for the 1979 Pirates, I agree that Blyeven, despite his 12-5 record, had a subpar year.

Anthony, all good points. But as someone who grew up watching baseball in the 70s and 80s, I guess Blyleven never struck me as a dominant, great pitcher. He was always really good...for many years. One huge stat to me is how he fared compared to the pitchers in his generation -- and comparative ERA is the stat to be reviewed here. Blyleven finished 135th alltime in this category. You'll see that most of the pitchers you listed with worse K/9 inning ratios fared better than Blyleven here.

[KNH]

Blyleven does not even come close to comparing to Seaver or Carlton. In an era when there were 4 man pitching staffs, his 162 game average record was 14-12. Sorry, but that's not HOF material. And a 3.31 ERA was nothing to brag about back then.

[Anthony S.]

Kary,

I agree about Seaver and Carlton, but I didn't generate the list, baseball-reference did. No clue what formula they use.

[Bridwell]

I think Blyleven should make it. 287 wins is impressive, in any era. He lost a lot too, but he played on a lot of weak teams. Tracking his career, it seems to me he was usually scheduled against the other team's ace. Thus he came up short on the winning % despite some good stats. If he had found a way to win only 13 more times in 18 years, he would be a sure thing with 300.