Carl Horner photo- ID help

bmarlowe1 · #1 01-12-2010, 02:42 PM

It's neither of the McLean's (clearly) , nor is it Chief Meyers (whom it at least does resemble) - the ears do not match (nor do several other features).

I'll post photos later.

Leon - why didn't you ask me first?

jthorn · #2 01-12-2010, 02:58 PM

OK, if Mark F thinks it's not Meyers, I go to Plan B: umpire Bill Klem. See below, from 1914.

john thorn

Leon · #3 01-12-2010, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bmarlowe1

It's neither of the McLean's (clearly) , nor is it Chief Meyers (whom it at least does resemble) - the ears do not match (nor do several other features).

I'll post photos later.

Leon - why didn't you ask me first?

Hey Mark
First of all thanks for helping. I knew I could count on you!! And no disrespect meant towards jthorn either. I appreciate all of the help very much.
It was a last minute bid...and knowing the seller very well I knew he would work with me (which he has agreed to do) if it isn't a "Mclean". Us Texans stick together fairly well

.

bmarlowe1 · #4 01-12-2010, 03:00 PM

Hi John.

OK - like at least many hundreds of people at the time - the guy kind of resembles Chief Meyers. So what? He is not in a Giant's uniform, he is not with easily recognizable team-mates. He is just a guy in an old photo in a suit that resembles Meyers. That alone means that it is very highly unlikley that it is Meyers.

As to analysis - the ear mis-match is striking - we know for sure it is not Meyers. (also the nose is way different). It's also not McLean - Leon go get your money back.

slidekellyslide · #5 01-12-2010, 03:06 PM

The photo on Meyer's Colgan's chip card(scan borrowed from Rhett's site - Thanks Rhett!) is probably a Horner photo.

Leon · #6 01-12-2010, 03:07 PM

Mark,
THANKS again....will do. BTW, it was Jon Richmond as the seller (jonnstats) and he is a great guy, in the true sense of the word. I told him if it wasn't Mclean, and I didn't think it was, it was just another guy in a suit (my exact words)....take care

drc · #7 01-12-2010, 03:45 PM

It doesn't have to be a baseball player.

jthorn · #8 01-12-2010, 03:53 PM

But it is a ballplayer! I seem to have missed with Meyers and Klem but dammit, I have hit paydirt with Leon "Red" Ames. See below.

john thorn

mr2686 · #9 01-12-2010, 03:59 PM

Here's another picture

drc · #10 01-12-2010, 04:05 PM

Duly note that with the non-card images, the majority of Horner's baseball photos are of NY Giants players. If one found an odd Horner baseball photo, statistical odds would be the player would a Giant.

bmarlowe1 · #11 01-13-2010, 12:27 PM

from my previous post: "It's neither of the McLean's..."

Correcting myself, note that John McLean and Larry McLean are one person - ML career 1901 - 1915.

thekingofclout · #12 01-15-2010, 10:19 PM

mattybyvanoeyen.jpg

jthorn · #13 02-07-2010, 01:33 PM

see the attached--a Horner Ames...

john thorn

bmarlowe1 · #14 02-07-2010, 06:46 PM

Even the hairline does not match. The distance from the brow line to the center part is considerably larger for Ames than the unknown guy.

Kawika · #15 03-25-2010, 02:40 AM

Carl Horner Red Ames cabinet on eBay: http://tinyurl.com/ykhjgd5
"Only small amounts of front surface paper speck loss takes away from the overall grade." Virtually pristine, you might say. SGC is really hard on paper loss.
(Not wishing to rekindle the Ames vs. not-Ames discussion).

thekingofclout · #16 03-25-2010, 02:50 AM

You are a Man amongst men.

thekingofclout · #17 03-25-2010, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kawika

Carl Horner Red Ames cabinet on eBay: http://tinyurl.com/ykhjgd5
"Only small amounts of front surface paper speck loss takes away from the overall grade." Virtually pristine, you might say. SGC is really hard on paper loss.
(Not wishing to rekindle the Ames vs. not-Ames discussion).

SGC says it's Ames.

bmarlowe1 · #18 04-23-2012, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jthorn

I Still Say It's Ames......
john thorn

The photo in question (below right) was identified as boxing promoter Alec Mclean in the May 1911 issue of Baseball Magazine (below left). Thanks to Kawika for finding this.

Kawika said above, "There seems to be two distinct camps in this thread: Mark and his objective methods and everybody else who thinks it sure as hell looks like Ames."
The important point here is not about being right as to a single photo, it's about a methodology that produces accurate results vs. one that clearly does not.

peterose4hof · #19 08-07-2013, 10:12 AM

Sorry to bring this old thread back from the dead, but I was wondering what is the value of a Horner Cabinet of a relative unknown like Mr. McLean "the Boxing Promoter"?

Consequently, this thread is a fascinating read.

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