Who will be the buyer of our vintage cards in 20 years?

[bbeck]

Barry-nice to hear from you also. I have thought about this question for a few years now. My store is still relatively solid but I slowly see the handwriting on the wall. My customer base is now 80% adults and 20% kids. 5-10 years ago the percentages were the exact opposite. I have always dealt heavily in vintage because that is what I love but have always had a nice selection of the current era. As you stated, everything is changing and I can witness it first hand in the store. Their will always be collectors of coins, cards etc.. and I am not really referring quite as much to the 25-35 age group (they grew up with a more positive collecting atmosphere) as I am sure they will pick up some of the slack. I am in my 40's(the later half) and will always collect as long as I am capable of doing so. I am really referring to the 10-20 year old age group, who are growing up with virtually no interest in cards plus a tainted era of baseball. I do not have a crystal ball and maybe they will gravitate towards collecting vintage cards in their adult years, trends do change, but my gut does not see that happening. With the slow demise of card stores and shows, collecting will become more impersonal through the computer and auction houses, which I personally perceive as another negative. Back in 1976 I purchased my 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth with my dad at my side for $35 at the hotel Roosevelt in NYC. We could not believe we had spent that much on a card and it is memory with my dad I will always cherish. A few weeks back a young boy around age 13 purchased a Ted Williams card (over a t205 Joe Tinker) with his dad at my store and I told them my story. It was a really nice moment that still does happen but it is a true rarity. Again, the best of the best and the true legends will always be collected, I just think it will be tougher for today's kids to overcome their childhood collecting apathy and gulp down all the vintage we have cherished.

[barrysloate]

Bob- as you know I met your dad a number of years ago and he and I spent the day talking about his love of the New York Giants. He was a collector too and if I recall correctly he was a big Carl Hubbell fan.

One of your most striking points is the lack of kids who are now coming into your store. That of course would not bode well for the future.

[PolarBear]

Kids today are rarely interested in anything not video game related. Not good for the future of traditional collectables.

[rman444]

Originally Posted by PolarBear

Kids today are rarely interested in anything not video game related. Not good for the future of traditional collectables.

Not good for the future in general.

[prewarsports]

I used to worry about this a little but I dont anymore. 10 years ago my Brother Rhett and I (at 23 and 22 years old) were by far the youngest guys on the Fullcount board and someone asked the same type question. Here 10 years later we are bit older in our early 30's but there are new younger guys that are getting into it or coming back into it. As long as there is a fascination with Baseball and Sports History, there will be demand for related Antiques. Areas of collectibles will fluctuate with modern trends but I would be more worried about stamps and coins than something that kids always have and always will participate in like sports.

Rhys Yeakley

[barrysloate]

Bob- I remember him telling me about that Hubbell trophy, but he did not have it with him so I didn't get to see it.

[slidekellyslide]

My son (8 years old) has almost no interest in baseball collectibles even though he has played for 4 years, begs me to play catch 9 months out of the year (my arm is still sore), and is surrounded by it all over our house. I used to take him with me to the local card store hoping he would buy some baseball cards, but he always bought a pack or two of Pokemon or Magic cards...I tried to convince him that he could buy an entire box of 1990 Fleer baseball cards for the same price as two packs of Magic cards and he never would go for it. I take him to minor league games and he has no interest in getting autographs of the players. I had been buying him a Topps baseball factory set every year since he was born..this year was the first year I didn't do that. I didn't think he'd notice but he did which made me a smile.

I agree with Jim that there is a collector gene...both my mother and father had it and passed it on to me. My wife doesn't collect anything, and I tried in the past to get her interested in a hobby, but she just doesn't care...I think she passed her genes on to my son, which is good in the looks department so he has that going for him.

[mcap100176]

I don't think "the tainted era of baseball" will have anything to do with cards. 75 million people went to MLB games in 2009, and how many more went to the cheaper minor league stadiums. I would wager that only a small portion of the baseball following public cares about steroids/PEDs.

I am 33 years old. I am at age where all my friends are having or have had kids. Guess what? All the boys play baseball, all the boys collect cards of today's players. All their dads are teaching them the history of the game. If they stay interested in cards, they'll find the vintage stuff.

Concerning what the future holds....
1. Commons are called commons for a reason. Nice to have but when my friends are over and I pull out my Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb, etc., eyes open wide. Not just my friends, but my father's friends have asked me to bring over vintage stuff.

2. The internet has been a godsend.
A. Cheap and easy way to trade and buy.
B. Without the internet, we wouldn't be having this discussion
C. Opened markets where there wasn't a market before

3. The future
A. Big names will always sell
B. Rare items will always sell
C. High grade will sell
D. The internet is the future, no more store fronts
E. Shows will continue to happen just not as often
F. Card will be viewed as a commodity for today's "older statesmen." Today
it's a collection & hobby, tomorrow the commodity will be sold off for
retirement, to pay for medical bills, etc.
G. Something will come along to replace Ebay as the main sales venture.

To add:
I am not concerned about going to a store. I would rather sit at home, and compare prices and have something delivered. Search Ebay and use VCP to find what I want and if I don't like the price, wait.

This isn't a generational thing any more. This year at Christmas I had 3 people come up to me at family parties saying they did all their shopping online like I do (We talked about it the year before) and they will never go to a store again.

PS. I also play video games.

[smtjoy]

Real good thread.

I think many have mentioned the collecting gene a lot and I also believe in it. Because of that while we can have no idea what kids today will collect when they are older we do know that many of them will collect something. So they very well may collect cards when older just because they remember the game and the memories it gives them. I think baseballs popularity has a lot more to do with collecting cards later on than if you did as a kid or not.

I never saw the Ruths and Cobbs play much less the Clementes and Jackie Robinsons but I stongly collect them and I dont really see any less demand for the real greats in the future.

This got me thinking, how have the prices of vintage boxing cards done over the years. To me its a sport thats seen a huge decline in fans in the last 30-50 years or so and I wonder how the vintage cards are doing? Did they peak years ago? The only boxing cards I have purchased have been Dempsey, Louis and Ali exhibits, how have the top fighters cards done over the last 30 years or so vs all the other boxing cards? I wonder did most of the people collecting vintage boxing today, collect them as a kid or not?


While I loved the card shows and stores of the 80's, if it was not for the internet I would not be collecting today.

[Exhibitman]

Originally Posted by bbeck

Back in 1976 I purchased my 1933 Goudey Babe Ruth with my dad at my side for $35 at the hotel Roosevelt in NYC. We could not believe we had spent that much on a card

Holy crap! In 1976 my father and I went to the ASCCA Thanksgiving show at the Roosevelt in NYC and I borrowed $25 above my savings to close on 1952 Topps and 1953 Topps Willie Mays cards. We also could not believe what we'd spent (and my mother was seriously ticked off at him for letting me do it). Talk about coincidences...And it turned out to be one of the best investments I have ever made. I sold the cards a few years later for 20x what I paid for them.

As far as 20 years from now, my responses are:

1. I plan to be around and actively collecting, so the cards will be just where they are now--gathering dust, like me.

2. If I happen to be gone, who cares? I will have had my fun and will not be in a position to do anything about it anyhow.

3. If the card market crashes to oblivion tomorrow I have still had a great time of it and will still collect--just with a lot more cards for the buck. Profit or losses are just numbers on an insurance valuation form if you do not plan to sell your cards. I don't. "Collecto ergo sum"--I collect therefore I am.

Scott, as far as boxing cards go (and I think I have a bit of cred on this issue), prices have declined over the last two years on all but the best stuff, which I love BTW, but I don't think we have reached the potential on the issues. Same with nonsports. Baseball cards have become the province of the really well off and wealthy. When I started out I could realistically promise myself that I could afford a Wagner some day. Now it is just a fantasy. The same is true of many other marquee vintage baseball cards. Boxing, I can still afford even the most expensive cards.

One other general observation on something that I think we often miss: fan bases for sports overlap with but are by no means congruent with collectors of cards from those sports. I know a lot of card collectors who do not follow the current versions of the sports in which they collect. I feel you either have the collecting bug or you don't. Case in point is one of my friends from the "outside" who is a huge sports fan but who could not care less about collecting anything from the sports he follows. He has a few pieces displayed in his rec room for atmosphere but that's it. He'd rather go to an insurance seminar than to a card convention and he thinks what we do is nuts. I haven't followed football since the Raiders left town and I haven't followed hockey since Gretzky retired but I collect cards from those sports from the 1960s and 1970s.

[bbeck]

judsonhamlin-I am in Livingston, New Jersey. I have a website which will post directions. I do not know if I am allowed to post a website address on these boards so I will not.

Exhibitman-The Thanksgiving 1976 show is the exact same show we purchased the Ruth card. What an incredible show, no price guides and $10 could buy you a t206 Cobb. We both got great deals, I held onto my Ruth and it will stay in its raw state forever.

[Leon]

Originally Posted by bbeck

judsonhamlin-I am in Livingston, New Jersey. I have a website which will post directions. I do not know if I am allowed to post a website address on these boards so I will not.

Exhibitman-The Thanksgiving 1976 show is the exact same show we purchased the Ruth card. What an incredible show, no price guides and $10 could buy you a t206 Cobb. We both got great deals, I held onto my Ruth and it will stay in its raw state forever.

Bob- Thanks for your courtesy in showing restraint. A true gentleman you are. That being said we don't really want links to other chatboards as that is what we are. Every once in a while a Collectors Universe link gets posted, or our friends at SGC have their link posted, and that is ok to an extent. You are welcome to post a link to your website if you would like to. Thanks again for your courtesy.

To what Adam said right above- I am in the vast minority and am exactly opposite of what you said. I could care less about today's pro sports, for the most part, but I love collecting old baseball cards. best regards

[bbeck]

Leon thank you - I joined the board because its a great pool of knowledge with some fantastic one liners -Bob