Where have all the Cobb HINDU's gone.....?

[PEEK enterprises]

Thanks for the clarifcation Ted.

That is a shame as the Cobb would have been such a great front/back combo. As with the Matty Portrait with a Red back. It's even more of a shame that several fake front/back combo's could be floating around, some graded by the finest authenticators, that would fool the majority of collectors and end up being nothing but novelty items. Very scary in fact.

Could you then list the backs (non-Piedmont or Sweet Caporal) that a Green Cobb can legitimately be found with? I recently picked up an Old Mill but have seen no others.

Thanks Ted

[insidethewrapper]

I'm so confused now. Which backs exist with each of the 4 Cobb's ? Ted, please list. I had a list which I thought was at 59 total not including the Ty Cobb back. What total do you have ? Again please list.

[toppcat]

Originally Posted by Double-P-Enterprises

Thanks for the clarifcation Ted.

That is a shame as the Cobb would have been such a great front/back combo. As with the Matty Portrait with a Red back. It's even more of a shame that several fake front/back combo's could be floating around, some graded by the finest authenticators, that would fool the majority of collectors and end up being nothing but novelty items. Very scary in fact.

Could you then list the backs (non-Piedmont or Sweet Caporal) that a Green Cobb can legitimately be found with? I recently picked up an Old Mill but have seen no others.

Thanks Ted

So the 150 series 649 Sweet Cap o/p's and the 350/460 red Hindu's are both a card shy of being divisible by 6 (35 and 41 known respectively)? Interesting. That almost suggests a double print in each series. It might be hard to ID with the red Hindu's but is there a single Sweet Cap from the o/p series that is found with more regularity than the others?

I wonder if the Cobb holdback had something to do with some exclusivity Cobb had in the Factory 649 distribution area which you think would or could include Detroit as it was on the upstate/Great Lakes transport network. Take a look at the Google map below , Rochester products could easily ship out of Buffalo (eastern end of Lake Erie) and go to Detroit (almost Western end of Lake Erie, then short canal trip) by water or probably direct from Rochester by rail.

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=roches...ed=0CA4Q8gEwAA

[caramelcard]

Hi Ted,

Interesting subject.

You stated in the other thread:

"2nd....that brings me to the recent Red Cobb/Red HINDU card you alluded to. Frankly, I am very skeptical about this card as
being a authentic. I would like to see at least one or two more of these to feel confident that this front/back combo is real."

I haven't seen the card in person and it may very well be rebacked, but the red hindus are tough enough that there are several that I've only seen one example of so I don't think that's a good enough reason to discount it. How many Cy Young red hindus have you seen? I know Brian W. has a Johnson/red hindu, but I don't recall seeing another one.

Obviously, going back to Heitman's back theories, Bat On and Green Portrait should be available with brown Hindu backs.

In this thread a while back: http://www.net54baseball.com/showthr...ght=cobb+hindu

I asked the question about whether or not the Bat On/Hindu combo existed because I knew I had never seen one. Aaron Seefeldt posted scans of both a red cobb/red hindu and a bat on/brown hindu. Not sure if that brown hindu was the same card that you own or what.

Anyways, I would personally guess that a Cobb bat on with brown hindu will turn up.

Rob

[tedzan]

As requested..........

Green portrait
_____________

PIEDMONT 150 Factory 25
PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
SOVEREIGN 150
SWEET CAPORAL 15O Factory 25
SWEET CAPORAL 150 Factory 30
SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
OLD MILL

Bat on shoulder
______________

PIEDMONT 150 Factory 25
PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
SOVEREIGN 150
SOVEREIGN 350
SWEET CAPORAL 15O Factory 25
SWEET CAPORAL 150 Factory 30
SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
OLD MILL

Bat off shoulder
______________

UZIT
LENOX (black)
LENOX (brown)
CYCLE 460
AMERICAN BEAUTY 460
EPDG
PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
SOVEREIGN 350
SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
TOLSTOI
OLD MILL
PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
POLAR BEAR

Red portrait
__________

BROAD LEAF 460
DRUM
SOVEREIGN 460
LENOX (black)
CAROLINA BRIGHTS
CYCLE 460
EPDG
PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42
AMERICAN BEAUTY 350 (frame)
CYCLE 350
SOVEREIGN 350
SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42
SWEET CAPORAL 460 Factory 42 (ovpt)
SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 25
SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 25
TOLSTOI
OLD MILL
PIEDMONT 460 Factory 25
SWEET CAPORAL 46O Factory 30
SWEET CAPORAL 350 Factory 30
PIEDMONT 350 Factory 25
POLAR BEAR


TED Z

[tedzan]

You asked several ?'s, I'll start with this one:
" Obviously, going back to Heitman's back theories, Bat On and Green Portrait should be available with
brown Hindu backs. "

Over 30 years ago when Bill researched his book, he didn't have the benefit of the Internet. Neverthe-
less, Bill once told me he had sampled several 100,000's (if not a million) of T206's, so one would think
he'd come across at least one Cobb (green or bat on) HINDU ? Furthermore, when "The Monster" was
published (in 1980) he said he knew of only 6 red HINDU cards.


2nd ?...." Not sure if that brown hindu was the same card that you own or what. "

The fellow I traded that card to submitted it for grading (back in 2002) and it was rejected as being
"altered".

3rd ?...." How many Cy Young red hindus have you seen? "

I have never seen this CYoung; however, a Net54er has seen it and told me about it. And, I trust his
word. Yes, there are some Red HINDU's that appear to be unique and there are others that exist in
multiples.

Rob, I would love to see an original Cobb HINDU of any stripe. But, after 29 years of collecting T206's
I have not seen one. It has certainly been a mystery to me and that is why I have delved into the
"nitty-gritty" of perhaps why. Simply, because my mind desires a plausible explanation. So, we can
not ignore this "Factory #649" pattern that is evident across three T-brands and two T-card issues.

Whatever, I await to see a HINDU Cobb (T205 or T206).


TED Z

[caramelcard]

Thanks Ted,

Just to follow up a bit...

I have seen the Cy Young with Red Hindu. A friend of mine has an example and I know it's legit.

I do remember (and I'm sure you do too) the rebacked green cobb with red hindu which was an obvious reback job on ebay many years ago. That card was just silly. I'm not familiar with your brown hindu reback.

When I asked you about the brown hindu whether or not if was yours, I was referring to the graded example that was in the thread that I included in my last post.

That was another example of a Cobb Bat on with brown hindu. If Aaron still has the scan and sees this thread perhaps he'll post it again.

The red hindu/red cobb was a high grade example. One would think it would be fairly easy to spot a reback job with that card, but you never know with PSA handling and encapsulating the card.

Thanks Ted! I hope one day we can confirm one.

Rob

[tedzan]

Rob

I can add two more significant "fakes" to the mix that have been graded (4's or 5's)....that I have seen.


T206 Cobb (bat off) with a PIEDMONT 150 back....a NO-NO F/B combo

T206 Joe Doyle error with a POLAR BEAR back....Doyle error only exists with a PIEDMONT 350 back


I'm sure other some other Net54er's can chime in with more "altered" cards that they are aware of.

Meanwhile, don't discount the "Factory #649 factor" regarding Cobb's that I have presented here.


TED Z

[tedzan]

Dave

Sounds like you agree with my T206 "6-card" basic denominator theory. Anyhow, let's further consider the Sweet Cap 150,
Factory 649 sub-set. I think this was initially a 36-card design and ALC removed a subject (perhaps, either Cobb or Plank).
Whatever, that's besides the point here. Check-out this comparison of 1st series Detroit players......

Sweet Cap 150 (factory 649)................Brown HINDU

.................................................. Donovan (portrait)
Killian (pitching)..............................Killian (pitching)
O'Leary (portrait)............................O'Leary (portrait)
Schmidt (throwing).........................Schmidt (throwing)

Continuing.........

Sweet Cap 150 (factory 649)................Brown HINDU

Jim Delehanty....traded to Detroit 8/09.......DITTO

Tom Jones....traded to Detroit 8/09...........DITTO


I think the above data illustrates that there was not a "diabolical scheme" NOT to print Detroit players with HINDU or SWEET
CAP 150 (f649) backs.

So then, why did ALC not print Cobb with these T-brands ?

The "Factory #649 factor" mystery thickens ? ?


TED Z