Thoughts on Buying from Legendary

barrysloate · #1 02-13-2010, 09:21 AM

People may make light of CC over on the memorabilia side but everybody wants them shut down. That they have been able to operate the way they do for so long and still be in business says a lot to me about law enforcement. I'm sure the feds know about what goes on over there, and yet what have they done about it? Nobody really understands how it has gone on for so long. Clearly, CC understands how the system works.

barrysloate · #2 02-13-2010, 09:25 AM

And Mike to touch on your other point, people who bid on baseball memorabilia are not always rational. They bid emotionally and often ending up going way past their intended maximum. And while it's not good to blame the victim, unfortunately auction houses know this and take advantage of them. This has been going on as long as I've been in this business, and probably longer.

Peter_Spaeth · #3 02-13-2010, 09:28 AM

I don't for a second condone shill bidding, but to me, as an issue, it pales next to card doctoring/misrepresentation of memorabilia.

HRBAKER · #4 02-13-2010, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I don't for a second condone shill bidding, but to me, as an issue, it pales next to card doctoring/misrepresentation of memorabilia.

Yes Peter, you would think we all collect used cars wouldn't you?

barrysloate · #5 02-13-2010, 09:31 AM

I agree Peter. Overpaying for something isn't good, but at least you get the item. Buying an altered or counterfeit piece is much worse, because you get nothing. But it's all bad.

Peter_Spaeth · #6 02-13-2010, 09:35 AM

Of course it isn't necessarily an either/or, as I am sure there are countless instances of paying a shilled price for an altered card or a misrepresented item.

Leon · #7 02-13-2010, 09:57 AM

Hey, you guys quit throwing Scott and I (B & L) under the bus, would ya'?

We are still young in the auction business but have done no wrong and our intent is to do no wrong. If you want to see real market prices check our auctions. I can't really give opinions of other auction houses but only very few come to mind where I don't think anything wrong has happened. I will leave it at that

. best regards

Peter_Spaeth · #8 02-13-2010, 10:03 AM

Yes Jeff you can look at it in that reductionist way, but typically the gap between the value of a card altered v. as holdered will be a hell of a lot more than a bid level or two.

calvindog · #9 02-13-2010, 09:49 AM

I have to laugh at some of the reasoning on this board, seriously.

Ok, one last time, very slowly:

if you are defrauded by x number of dollars due to a shill bid and you receive an authentic card at an unauthentic price, you are out x dollars.

if you purchase an altered card with the assumption it is not altered, you have been defrauded by the amount that the card is worth as advertised as unaltered minus the amount that the card is worth advertised as altered. If that difference is x dollars, then each fraud described above has the same financial impact on the buyers.

Mike, as for the mentality that "if you bid with your head and your budget in mind, you wouldn't overpay" this does not excuse shill bidding which raises the final price to a level that that the bidder still believes is appropriate if he is 'bidding with his head.' All that means is that his 'head' is unaware of the true value of the card.

And Jeff P, the only solution is law enforcement or civil lawsuits brought against the auction houses. It is clear to me based on the high incidence of lowlifes that head up most of the auction houses in our hobby that they cannot be trusted to police themselves. I wrote about this in 2006(!) that it was clear to me why fraudsters (convicted or soon to be) gravitate towards this hobby/business. It's just too easy for them to steal in an unfettered, unmonitored fashion. And reading some comments on this thread, the victims themselves don't even want to be considered victims most of the time. It's almost as if the government/law enforcement need to protect some of the victims here from themselves.

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