SGC Labels

[chaddurbin]

this is the 1st gen. with the "SG" in front and cool hologram on the back...i think there's a couple variations of this flip. don't know anything about '54 topps, but since you got it graded urself card itself should be fine and cross to current holder. however potential bidders may be confused by the old flip when bidding

[HBroll]

Hi everyone,
Great question Bill. I have a card with an old SGC flip I was wondering about also. Would it effect the value of this card (if I sold it) if I left it in this holder or should I upgrade to a newer holder? Thanks!
Howard

[Kenny Cole]

I have some difficulty with the same company disclaiming the grades that it previously gave (and which people paid money for), based on the lapse of time. IMO, if the grade was given, SGC should stand behind it. I kind of thought that was why the money was paid to begin with. Just my .02.

Kenny Cole

[Robextend]

Kenny I agree, also I had purchased a 1933 Goudey card in the same 1st Gen "SG" holder and was told by SGC that it can easily be re-holdered without any issue. But for my collecting purposes I am not concerned about which SGC Flip/Holder I have, I didn't think there was a need to be concerned. Either way this is an interesting topic.

Rob

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

I have some difficulty with the same company disclaiming the grades that it previously gave (and which people paid money for), based on the lapse of time. IMO, if the grade was given, SGC should stand behind it. I kind of thought that was why the money was paid to begin with. Just my .02.

Kenny Cole

Kenny,

I bet if there was a big issue SGC would "fix" it for the card owner. Their customer service is pretty good. I wouldn't get all riled up before I talked to them.

[Kenny Cole]

Jim,

I'm not riled up at all, at least not yet. I was simply commenting on what I understood to be a company response that I view as a complete cop-out -- i.e., we didn't do as good a job back then as we do now so we don't stand behind our previous product. IMO, that sort of company response is complete and absolute BS. I hope that my understanding of the company response is incorrect.

Moreover, to the extent its an issue, I don't think it should have to be the screwed consignor's responsibility to contact the company and try to get them to make it right years later. The consignor paid for a correct grade and that is what they should have gotten, be it 2000, 2005, or 2010. I don't even think that a contrary viewpoint is arguable.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Many 1st generation SGC cards are improperly graded because they basically ignored centering. Puts the new ownership in a difficult position, I think they made the right call in saying reholdering was not automatic.

[Leon]

As much as I respect what Kenny Cole (hi Kenny) says, above, and am usually about 99% in agreement as to what he usually states, I agree with Peter on this one. It was all different graders and all different ownership when most of the older card holder's cards got graded. I think it would be a disservice to the current group of SGC graders, and customers, to blindly reholder at the same level. That being said I do think that most times the grades will be pretty darned equal, if not exactly equal. I sent in an SGC 92 M116 HOF'er, about a year or three ago, in an older holder and it came back an SGC 92. Now, that being said I would hope that on most (or all) occasions that SGC would mitigate some damages (grading vouchers etc..) if the card didn't cross to an equal grade. Also though, that being said, if it crossed to a better grade would we expect us to give them money for the increased value? It's a tough question and I think could be fairly debated either way. Just my opinion. For the record the card in question, from the scan, looks to be correctly graded, at least to me. I think I might have just said a whole lot of nothing regards

[Kenny Cole]

Peter and Leon,

So its OK to pay for a "service" you evidently didn't get the first time around and be held up to pay for that same service again? I don't think so.

It seems to me that it is SGC's responsibilty to get it right the first time since accuracy is what they sell (and have presumably sold from the get go). Accuracy is precisely what was marketed and presumably what the buyer purchased even back when, according to what appears to be the current position, their grading was, at least sometimes, somewhat subpar.

I am not suggesting that SGC has to stick with the grade it previously assigned. It doesn't even do that now. I am, however, suggesting that if SGC backtracks on a grade it previously gave, it needs to make it right financially. The buyer should not be out because SGC did a poor job to begin with.

[Bosox Blair]

Originally Posted by Kenny Cole

Jim,

I'm not riled up at all, at least not yet. I was simply commenting on what I understood to be a company response that I view as a complete cop-out -- i.e., we didn't do as good a job back then as we do now so we don't stand behind our previous product. IMO, that sort of company response is complete and absolute BS. I hope that my understanding of the company response is incorrect.

Moreover, to the extent its an issue, I don't think it should have to be the screwed consignor's responsibility to contact the company and try to get them to make it right years later. The consignor paid for a correct grade and that is what they should have gotten, be it 2000, 2005, or 2010. I don't even think that a contrary viewpoint is arguable.

I don't know what the company response is that you refer to. I have never heard of SGC failing to honor the guaranty in these circumstances. That is why it is a guaranty. If the card would not cross at the same grade under the current standards, they owe the owner some money (usually offered first as grading vouchers...cash is tough to part with).

The change of ownership issue is a red herring. I am 100% sure that when they did the deal there would have been some form of contingent liability reduction in the selling price of the company to account for future guaranty claims that the new owners would have to deal with...standard procedure.

Cheers,
Blair

[Leon]

Hey Kenny
I am not sure what the analogy is for me arguing with a lawyer that I know is very rarely incorrect but there is a good one, I just can't think of it. Maybe I am coming to a gunfight unarmed? At any rate I wouldn't want to put words in SGC's proverbial mouth so I don't have any idea what their official stand is. My guess, and this is only a guess, is that they can't really give a blanket statement to cover every scenario and take them one by one. That being said I have not seen them (ever that I remember) make a poor decision so that is what I am going with. Also, when I buy cards, especially for my collection, and they are in anyone's holder, my main concern is about them being altered. As long as they aren't altered then I can pretty much see how the card looks myself. And I fully undertsand that misses the point concerning value....but that is my thought anyway.

Since there has to be a clause about grading being subjective, and that they are human and can make a mistake, I sort of doubt they have themselves cornered without having an out, concerning any grading. That wouldn't be smart. I don't ever remmber seeing the term "concrete and immutable standard" on the SGC site. kind regards

[BCauley]

Originally Posted by chaddurbin

this is the 1st gen. with the "SG" in front and cool hologram on the back...i think there's a couple variations of this flip. don't know anything about '54 topps, but since you got it graded urself card itself should be fine and cross to current holder. however potential bidders may be confused by the old flip when bidding

That's one of the things I was worried about. Oh well, it is what it is I guess. I'd like to pick up this card somewhere down the line but I think the pre-war has tightened it's bite on me and has broken skin. No sense in fighting it now.

Paul-Great to see a fellow "NOVA" person! I actually ran into a member of this board at a show this past weekend in McLean/Tyson's Corner. He's got a shop opened up that way with vintage material that I keep saying I'm going to go to. I'll tell you what, this area is much better for cards than the Ft. Bragg/Fayetteville N.C. area where I just moved from 6 months ago!