BCCG Strikes Again

egbeachley · #1 03-21-2010, 04:55 PM

Beckett = Pathetic

Jim VB · #2 03-21-2010, 04:57 PM

I think it stinks too, but anyone dropping close to $8,000 on a card needs to be a little smarter than that.

Seller is very slimy.

scooter729 · #3 03-21-2010, 05:00 PM

It is the same card, because in BCCG's twisted pathetic world, a 6 equates to "Good or Better", which means it would be the same as a PSA 2 or SGC 30 apparently.

The uneducated BCCG buyers are going to learn a very difficult lesson with crap like this getting graded by what has the appearance of a reputable company.

barrysloate · #4 03-21-2010, 05:14 PM

This hobby is going to the dogs.

HRBAKER · #5 03-21-2010, 05:54 PM

We already knew about BCCG, looks like a seller to take note of too.

Ease · #6 03-21-2010, 06:12 PM

Though it is wrong for the seller not to include a pic of the back, it's totally buyer beware on anything in life. The card is clearly listed as good or better, and it's up to the buyer to be informed on different co.'s grading scales. I know everybody wants full honesty, etc., and so do I, but to blame the seller or beckett totally is out of line, imo the buyer takes the majority of the fault.

Rob D. · #7 03-21-2010, 06:19 PM

Assuming the sale is legit, on whom do you place most of the blame:

A. Beckett

B. The seller

C. The buyer

Matt · #8 03-21-2010, 06:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ease

Though it is wrong for the seller not to include a pic of the back, it's totally buyer beware on anything in life. The card is clearly listed as good or better, and it's up to the buyer to be informed on different co.'s grading scales. I know everybody wants full honesty, etc., and so do I, but to blame the seller or beckett totally is out of line, imo the buyer takes the majority of the fault.

You started your post by finding fault with the seller then ended by saying blaming the seller is out of line. In this particular transaction, there is plenty of blame to go around - Beckett for setting up the system, the seller for taking advantage of it and the buyer for dropping $8k on a card and not bothering to look at the back.

To your point that the card is clearly listed as good or better, it's also listed (in large font) as a "6." In every other grading system and even Beckett's normal system, 6 means EX-NM. Proving the point is that clearly the buyer didn't notice the grade description and just bought based on it being a "6." Again, plenty of blame to go around on this one.

Tcards-Please · #9 03-21-2010, 06:20 PM

The numerical grade of "6" is misleading, but since these are graders from Beckett that assigned it a grade of Good or Better, does that mean that BVG would also give this a numerical "2" Good grade? Do the same graders grade both (BCCG & BVG/BGS)? Although I do feel that the SGC grade of 20 was appropriate because of the paper loss on the back.

r/
Frank

Ease · #10 03-21-2010, 06:51 PM

I agree there's plenty of blame to go around, but the buyer (if legit) has to absorb most of it. Beckett only provides the bccg service, it's up to unscrupulous dealers to pull something like this. I'm no beckett fanboy nor do I agree with what the seller did, but I do not think any informed collector doesn't know that bccg's grading system is bogus. It is up to the buyers out there to stay away from items like this, if a seller can slap a pos in a bccg holder and make money, it makes fiscal sense (obviously morally wrong) to do it, and they will continue until buyers are informed and stay away. Crazy...
1. Buyer
2. Seller
3. Beckett

barrysloate · #11 03-21-2010, 06:55 PM

I blame all three. The Beckett slab is completely misleading because a 6 connotes a high grade. The only protection the buyer has is a good clear picture of the front and back, since it is the back that cost the card its grading points. So of course the seller omits a scan of the back. I blame:

1) Beckett for having a misleading grade;
2) The seller for omitting a scan of the back;
3) The buyer (if there was one) for showing very poor judgment in spending so much money for it.

Let's call it a three way tie.

Steve D · #12 03-21-2010, 10:36 PM

One major point that I think is being missed here is that initially, the card was in an SGC 20 holder (only 4 months ago). Someone (presumably the current seller) cracked the card out of the SGC holder and sent it to BCCG. Clearly, this had to have been done with intent to defraud. Why else would someone do this?

So, I completely blame the seller for this whole thing.

Steve

majordanby · #13 03-21-2010, 10:50 PM

I agree that you better do some damn research if you're going to throw down 8K for cardboard...but, does that mean the blame decreases for the buyer as the price of the card lowers? my hope back when beckett introduced bccg that the market will eventually kick out this product because of its misaligned grading scheme.

yanksfan09 · #14 03-22-2010, 01:57 PM

I think if beckett wants to earn more trust and respect in the hobby, they need to do away with bccg. What does that stand for..."Beckett's crappy card grading ?"

I like BVG, and will buy cards of those and like beckett's regular service for new cards, but this is a joke.

FUBAR · #15 03-22-2010, 03:15 PM

i am going to spin this a little differently..... Although i agree the seller is somewhat deceptive, his job as a seller is to get the most for his product. He has done that very well, it is sales/marketing 101. He made it more presentable to John q Buyer. All he did was change the holder. This guy knows BCCG gives a higher #, a more seller friendly number then other companies, and based on his feedback and other listings, he uses them alot for this purpose. Although experienced collectors do not like what he does, there is nothing wrong with it. His target market is the inexperienced collector.
If you are selling a house, do you take pictures of the cracks and paint chips? No, you point out the hilites. All the seller really did was put a new coat of paint on his house, and didnt point out the negatives aspects. The seller does have 12000+ feedback.

now onto the buyer. How do we not know the buyer didnt ask for a scan of the back? Although you were able to cross reference this card to an SGC holder, most wouldnt think of trying to look for that type of thing.

Also, how do we know the buyer is unhappy with his/her purchase?? we dont unless you contacted the seller and asked him/her.... he/she may be happy, but i am sure if they knew how this card was flipped, he/ she would be unhappy.

i can provide a personal example of this, When i started dating the girl i am with, she told me she had a vintage/antique bat that she paid $250 for. She told me how nice and valuable it was. So i asked to see this "amazing" bat seeing as i am somewhat knowledgable on collecting moreso then most (until i met you folks) well she brings out this "Dave Parker" wooden bat from the 70's, that you could buy at any K-mart back then. it looks like it was used as a hammer.
When i told her it was almost worthless, we got into an arguement. She was happy with her purchase. She now knows i am right and she got taken, being a girl who just wanted a nice collectable.

Beckett.. We all wish BCCG was consistent with other grading companies , but it isnt. It is marketed as a low cost alternative grading company, using the Beckett name. It is seperate from BGS and BVG. Therefore, as unfortunate as it is, they use a different scale to create a more positive spin on the card for inexperienced collectors. You cant blame them, it generates them moe business. Its also why i personally will never buy a BCCG graded card.

Leon hit it on the head, buy the card, not the holder!!!!

so to summarize:

So the seller got maximum money for his item.
Buyer paid too much, but could be happy, we dont know..
BCCG sucks and uses a terrible grading system.

Life goes on....lets hope people can learn from others mistakes!

ullmandds · #16 03-22-2010, 03:19 PM

Jim...your girlfriend REALLY paid $250 for a Dave Parker bat? If so...where would I find the thurman munson version of her?

FUBAR · #17 03-22-2010, 03:24 PM

yes she did, if i knew how to post up a picture, i would. I keep it in the living room and make fun of her every time she tells me i am wasting my money!

worst thing, its not even a real Dave Parker bat, it is a kids Dave Parker bat.... its only about 28 inches or so is my guess. K-mart special!

DanP · #18 03-22-2010, 03:29 PM

I think we just discussed this recently where I mentioned I made the same mistake when I got back into collecting in 2006. I bought a BCCG 9 or 10 1975 Brett (can't remember) for $120. I knew there were other grading companies, but did about 2 minutes of research and saw that BCCG is Beckett. I figured it must be legit since it was Beckett.

Once I got a little more experience I started dealing with PSA and SGC. I sent the card to PSA and received a 6. End result, I lost $100 (actually $120 since I gave the card away). It was 100% my fault.

There are so many scams out there today. Everyone has to take responsibility for their own actions. The seller made the most they could after doing their homework, BCCG provided the service that fit their business model after doing their homework and the buyer overpaid for a card he/she wanted after NOT doing their homework.

Dan

FUBAR · #19 03-22-2010, 04:07 PM

reminds me of my younger days, go out to a club and pick up an "8" maybe get a "9" if i had some luck. The occasional 10 was there, but could ever really afford one...

then the next morning, you realized she was a BCCG 8, not a PSA 8...

nowadays, you realize you only get the BVG(vintage) ones and a 4 or 5 is all you can afford

and you better hope you get a "real" one cause there is nothing worse then a fake! you thought you bought Eve, but you got Steve

joeadcock · #20 11-26-2010, 06:32 AM

Have read this thread with interest.

Ultimately, the most responsible person is the buyer as he/she made the decision to buy the card. It is the buyer's responsibility to get all the information they can(if they desire) to know what they are buying. If they did not(which we dont know), then it is they're responsibility.

Not withstanding the obvious intent of the buyer(and the obvious BCCG intent in their grading system), the buyer will always be responsible as they made the decision to purchase.

If one were to argue that the buyer was duped by false information, agreed but they the buyer should have made sure there was some way to back out of this(i.e. guaranteed return policy).

I agree with posters, the likely lack of ethics of seller as well as the BCCG grading system(not of any use to those on this forum). And I agree, it is BAD.

It is possible as FUBAR says, that person is happy with their purchase as is.

hunterdutchess · #21 11-26-2010, 09:45 AM

They can keep the BCCG system just make it:

BCCG 1: POOR OR BETTER
BCCG 2: GOOD OR BETTER
BCCG 3: VG OR BETTER
BCCG 5: EX OR BETTER
BCCG 7: NM OR BETTER
BCCG 9: MINT OR BETTER

No more 10's making people think the card is a gem. If they would have done this in the first place there would be no issues. Come on BECKETT!

Examples:
Howe RC BCCG:http://cgi.ebay.com/1951-Parkhurst-G...4#ht_529wt_905
Howe RC PSA:http://cgi.ebay.com/1951-Gordie-Howe...#ht_500wt_1156

$1600 MORE FOR THE SAME CARD? The seller puts BVG BGS BCCG and then the buyer sees a big 8 in there new nice looking BCCG holders.

Also look at these Jordan RC:http://cgi.ebay.com/1986-86-87-FLEER...5#ht_500wt_922
http://cgi.ebay.com/1986-Fleer-Micha...#ht_500wt_1156
NM Jordan RC selling for $600+ when you can get a NM 7 for:
http://cgi.ebay.com/MICHAEL-JORDAN-R...#ht_500wt_1156

But there BCCG is making $$$ screw the buyers because they did not do there homework. BS.

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Bccg	bigfish	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	34	07-29-2010 02:39 PM
BCCG 10 guaranteed BGS 9?	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	6	01-22-2009 03:55 PM
BCCG - I don't get it	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	2	02-22-2005 06:46 PM
BCCG...........	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	8	09-05-2003 10:23 PM
BCCG?????	Archive	Net54baseball Vintage (WWII & Older) Baseball Cards & New Member Introductions	33	03-21-2002 02:15 PM