Not O/T - Does Marriage Counseling Work?

[jboosted92]

Originally Posted by wolterse

Gents -

As we are all aware, this is a HUGE month on the auction block. I've spent many hours combing through numerous catalogs and web pages carefully selecting those lots that fit - oh so well - into my pre-war collection. Visions and feelings of anticipation, adrenaline, and anxiety flowing through my mind and body as I see the clock strike zero to declare me the winner. Hooray!

Yes, this is my goal. Yet, I've run into a bit of a roadblock.

My wife.

I brought all my finanial data to lunch with us on Saturday. I explained how everything would flow - our savings plan, her investment priorities, and my hobby 'stash' - into a plan that we could both agree to. And I got hobby stash budget approved. Yes! Here I come...but not so fast.

My wife tells me yesterday - 'Erich, you say baseball cards are an investment (yes, that's how I position it to her - I could never get away with spending the money I do by saying this is a hobby!). Well I need you to prove it to me. If I'm going to allow you to spend X over the next couple weeks, than I need you to prove to me that it is a good investment for us. If it is, then I'll support your decision 100%. If it's not, then I'm going to dramatically decrease the amount of dollars I allow you to spend on your cards!'



I've been asked to present my 'findings' on the value that my current collection has increased over the past couple years. I need to benchmark it against (S&P500?) some baseline so I can demonstrate how well we're doing and why I deserve to spend my 'stash' this month.

A few questions for the board:
1) How would you position your stash budget to someone that doesn't 'get' why we love this hobby so much? Someone who only sees how much I spend and rolls their eyes.
2) Do I use VCP to value my cards, find trends, asking prices, and compare that to what I paid?
3) How do I benchmark my collection against a baseline that my wife would understand? S&P500 is down 10% from 2 years ago. I'm confident my collection is outpacing this metric. This could really make me look good!
4) Any other advice and wisdom would be helpful.

Yours in collecting,
Erich

I provide the only income in the house.....i cant offer any good advice, unless you are the sole provider

[Section103]

From the outside, you can't understand it. From the inside, you can't explain it.

Tracking the S&P, DJ or any financial index is a piece of cake. You almost cant "not be able to do it". It's the tracking of your collection that is usually difficult, time-consuming, and sketchily accurate.

[bigtrain]

Been married 29 years and I have spent lots of money on my collection over the years. A lot of items have doubled or tripled in value, very few are worth less than I paid. I don't think it would matter to my wife if I didn't make a nickel on my collection. She has never complained or questioned my judgment on financing my collection. Not because I am always right, not because I never make a mistake, not because I am the primary "breadwinner". She supports my hobby because it makes me happy and that makes me easier to live with. I have never seen my collection as an investment. I invest in stocks, mutual funds and real estate. Being a successful investor may make me happy but owning shares of Apple or Cisco or whatever will never give me the joy of owning a Babe Ruth autograph or a T206 Drum back. To me, treating my collection as an investment would take some of the joy out of it. I would worry too much about losing value. I prefer to spend what I can afford but never spend more than I can afford to lose.

[Jacklitsch]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

Been married 29 years and I have spent lots of money on my collection over the years. A lot of items have doubled or tripled in value, very few are worth less than I paid. I don't think it would matter to my wife if I didn't make a nickel on my collection. She has never complained or questioned my judgment on financing my collection. Not because I am always right, not because I never make a mistake, not because I am the primary "breadwinner". She supports my hobby because it makes me happy and that makes me easier to live with. I have never seen my collection as an investment. I invest in stocks, mutual funds and real estate. Being a successful investor may make me happy but owning shares of Apple or Cisco or whatever will never give me the joy of owning a Babe Ruth autograph or a T206 Drum back. To me, treating my collection as an investment would take some of the joy out of it. I would worry too much about losing value. I prefer to spend what I can afford but never spend more than I can afford to lose.

Perfect!!

[ChiefBenderForever]

I just say this is my entertainment, do you want me to spend money on cards or strippers ? Cards will always win out !

[DanP]

I hope the Bruces don't read this thread! He's going to think he's right living on his own.

It sounds like you need an Enron style accountant to cook the books for you.

Good Luck!

Dan

[dstudeba]

If it is an investment, when are you planning to sell them?

When we need something I will often sell cards to fund the purchase. My wife doesn't worry how much I spend since she knows it is relatively liquid. I doesn't sound like this is true for you, so I find it hard to characterize it as an investment. I agree with your wife.

[glchen]

This is a pain, which you may not want to do, but I have a similar problem convincing my wife. Therefore, I told her that I'm looking to start a small business with the emphasis on "small." I'm already working on paperwork to get a seller's permit. I basically told my wife that the plan is to lose some money this year as I build up my collection, but eventually be able to start turning over some of the cards for break even or small profit. I told her to not expect a lot, but just break even or small profit, so the hobby isn't costing a lot, but is building up over time.

[tbob]

Originally Posted by bigtrain

Been married 29 years and I have spent lots of money on my collection over the years. A lot of items have doubled or tripled in value, very few are worth less than I paid. I don't think it would matter to my wife if I didn't make a nickel on my collection. She has never complained or questioned my judgment on financing my collection. Not because I am always right, not because I never make a mistake, not because I am the primary "breadwinner". She supports my hobby because it makes me happy and that makes me easier to live with. I have never seen my collection as an investment. I invest in stocks, mutual funds and real estate. Being a successful investor may make me happy but owning shares of Apple or Cisco or whatever will never give me the joy of owning a Babe Ruth autograph or a T206 Drum back. To me, treating my collection as an investment would take some of the joy out of it. I would worry too much about losing value. I prefer to spend what I can afford but never spend more than I can afford to lose.

Ditto. I don't question what my wife buys and vice-versa. Both of us are relatively frugal and completely pool our money with the exception of profit made from the sale of the cards which is plowed back in to more cards unless the money is needed around tax time or for some emergency. I am lucky, she is not that interested in card collecting but wants me to be happy so tolerates it.

[D. Broughman]

I think Andrew hit it on the head. You have to get her involved and let her know her input is important to you. I took my wife with me to antique shops and auctions and showed her things I thought where good to buy but let her make the call. We bought some and then looked them up and the value was higher. Now I have to watch her with the auction card she wants to buy but don't know the value.

[M's_Fan]

One of the most important factors to explain is liquidity and "exit strategy."

Explain how easy it would be to consign your cards to be sold, or sell yourself on eBay.

Also explain how inflation is likely hitting some day soon, and physical assets will be a good place to be.

[scooter729]

Erich,

How about you get some shills in the crowd to send bogus emails to you, offering 2x-3x what you paid for items in your collection??

Nah, I would say just show her some VCP prices to show what you could get for some of your items if you wanted to sell. It's hard to market to a non-collector how this could be better than a mutual fund portfolio for your investment dollar, but hopefully as your wife she'll be supportive of you!

[bbcard1]

Don't you guys just find a way to hide a little stash to spend on your cards? I usually stash my travel $. I have also planted clues to convince her that I have a raging hookers and blow habit and I expect she will be relieved when she finds out it is only baseball cards

[teetwoohsix]

Well,you can always get early hobby publications,and show her what these cards used to go for in the 70's-compared to what they are going for now

Regards,Clayton

P.S.Andrew & bigtrain-those were great answers.My wife has also learned about T206's,and loves to see the new cards I get-she is very supportive!!

[FUBAR]

I tell my wife/ gf that they do a monthly draw at the card store for a box of cards and luckily for me, i have won a few lately!

[Chicago206]

As I began tackling the T206 backs set, naturally I had to let the wife in on what was going on. Afterall, I very well couldnt just have $6,000 dissapear from the bank account without her noticing!

In the beginning, she just rolled her eyes and said "whatever". But that was for sub $200 purchases. When things started getting serious (Drum), she became a bit more interested in what I was "throwing our money away" on. Well, shortly after finishing the set, I decided to take a new direction. I ended up selling a few cards here on the BST. Since I was upfront on what I had spent on each new card as I bought them, and she has a mind like a steel trap (believe me thats NOT a good thing!), she was able to clearly see that my new hobby was a zero sum game. In other words, every card I sold was a break even on what we paid. This has really calmed her down as she now understands that im not just spending thousands on some goofy cardboard pictures of men. She now sees it as a legitimate investment, which as it turns out, is also a fun hobby for me. Im pretty much set with the green light on a BL460 now when the opportunity presents itself!

So in summary, IMO, the easiest and most effective way to show your better half the truth is to sell a few of your cards that might not fit your collection anymore. Every collector has some "dead weight" laying around (and no, im not talking about the wife!).

[jbsports33]

Erich,

The road is long and hard, it has been almost 10 years for me trying to get my wife to understand the process. I had to create a website, work at the shows and eBay to get her to see the benefit. It has worked and things are improving, but had to make it like a part-time business. Keep the business side to yourself for the most part and talk with her about simple things in the hobby.

Jimmy

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

As I began tackling the T206 backs set, naturally I had to let the wife in on what was going on. Afterall, I very well couldnt just have $6,000 dissapear from the bank account without her noticing!

In the beginning, she just rolled her eyes and said "whatever". But that was for sub $200 purchases. When things started getting serious (Drum), she became a bit more interested in what I was "throwing our money away" on. Well, shortly after finishing the set, I decided to take a new direction. I ended up selling a few cards here on the BST. Since I was upfront on what I had spent on each new card as I bought them, and she has a mind like a steel trap (believe me thats NOT a good thing!), she was able to clearly see that my new hobby was a zero sum game. In other words, every card I sold was a break even on what we paid. This has really calmed her down as she now understands that im not just spending thousands on some goofy cardboard pictures of men. She now sees it as a legitimate investment, which as it turns out, is also a fun hobby for me. Im pretty much set with the green light on a BL460 now when the opportunity presents itself!

So in summary, IMO, the easiest and most effective way to show your better half the truth is to sell a few of your cards that might not fit your collection anymore. Every collector has some "dead weight" laying around (and no, im not talking about the wife!).

Post of the Year nominee, in the dark irony category.

[drc]

Just remember that marriage counseling isn't free. You have to have some money left over to pay for it.

[JP]

I don't really understand what your thread title has to do with your question....I guess it is a joke or said to attract attention. Either way, either your wife will be on board with the idea or she won't. If you still engage in the hobby even if she isn't on board, that is financial infidelity.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by JP

If you still engage in the hobby even if she isn't on board, that is financial infidelity.

JP. The moral compass of the board!

[B O'Brien]

"Hookers and blow"! I never expected to see that phrase on this page. It is then followed up nicely by "that is financial infidelity". The card world is a great place!

If you want to show some profit, I would love give you a 10% increase on that nice little PSA 5 OM Collins!

Other than the buy offer, I have nothing worthwhile to add to this one. I am mostly trying to use this thread in my own world to explain card spending to the wife when I do tap into the credit card. I pretty much need to sell something to buy anything new.

Bob

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by B O'Brien

"Hookers and blow"

I don't know if anyone is following the death of Malcolm McLaren, but this was essentially the 21st birthday present from McLaren to Steve Jones, who when asked to comment on McLaren's death said that it was the best birthday present he ever got!