List of known Red HINDU's....can you add any new ones ?

[Jim VB]

By the way, that thread I linked was BEFORE last year's REA catalog came out, so it was well known in this community before that.

Mastro also sold it 10-11 years ago.

[Chicago206]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

By the way, that thread I linked was BEFORE last year's REA catalog came out, so it was well known in this community before that.

Mastro also sold it 10-11 years ago.

My mistake on the dates of the REA sale. I saw the 2007 copyright at the bottom of the page....it sold at 38k last year. Let me try to learn something now. If the card has been in existence for at least 11 years (back to Mastro's sale) how in the world has such a high profile card escaped detection as being an altered piece? Is it just that each new owner spends mega bucks for it, then locks it away in denial....afraid to have it examined for genuine authenticity? I cannot understand this. What are your thoughts?

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

My mistake on the dates of the REA sale. I saw the 2007 copyright at the bottom of the page....it sold at 38k last year. Let me try to learn something now. If the card has been in existence for at least 11 years (back to Mastro's sale) how in the world has such a high profile card escaped detection as being an altered piece? Is it just that each new owner spends mega bucks for it, then locks it away in denial....afraid to have it examined for genuine authenticity? I cannot understand this. What are your thoughts?

I think that's exactly what happens. Not every collector is really a student of the hobby. Most of this board's members will never spend $38,000 on a single card. But the percentage of knowledgeable collectors here is much higher than in the real world.

If you currently owned that card, would you prefer to resell it or take your chances that PSA will make you whole if it's rebacked?

[Chicago206]

If I bought that card (and I dont have that type of money), the very first thing I would do is to try to have it honestly analyzed for authenticity. I dont have the information on who/how this could be done, but I think there has to be some way to do so. If there isnt, then whats the point of ever buying another high dollar card ever again, right? I dont think I could ever be comfortable with such a card if even the slightest doubt was in the deepest region of my subconscience. Wouldnt you want it examined extensively for your own peace of mind?

[whitehse]

[QUOTE=Chicago206;801758]If I bought that card (and I dont have that type of money), the very first thing I would do is to try to have it honestly analyzed for authenticity. I dont have the information on who/how this could be done, but I think there has to be some way to do so. If there isnt, then whats the point of ever buying another high dollar card ever again, right? I dont think I could ever be comfortable with such a card if even the slightest doubt was in the deepest region of my subconscience. Wouldnt you want it examined extensively for your own peace of mind?[/QUOTE]


Not AFTER I buy it!

[FUBAR]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

If I bought that card (and I dont have that type of money), the very first thing I would do is to try to have it honestly analyzed for authenticity.

If I were thinking of spending that kind of money, I would make every effort to assure its authenticity BEFORE i drop the cash... Penny wise and pound foolish. I think everyone here would agree it is better to find out before and save yourself the money then to find out after and lose your investment.

[Chicago206]

Verify before you buy it? Good idea, and im sure REA wouldnt mind you taking the card for a few weeks prior to auction. Who do I ask for when I call them with this minor request?

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by Chicago206

Verify before you buy it? Good idea, and im sure REA wouldnt mind you taking the card for a few weeks prior to auction. Who do I ask for when I call them with this minor request?

Most major auction houses will let you inspect items before and during the auction, if you're a known buyer. At REA ask for Rob.

I agree that verifying (beyond the fact that it's already graded) would be a challenge. They're not going to let you send it in to a grading company, but they might let you black light it. They would certainly let you loupe it.

[Potomac Yank]

Originally Posted by FUBAR

If I were thinking of spending that kind of money, I would make every effort to assure its authenticity BEFORE i drop the cash... Penny wise and pound foolish. I think everyone here would agree it is better to find out before and save yourself the money then to find out after and lose your investment.

However, If you're a Collector, the approach may vary.
It all depends on your knowledge, and experience ... you might take a shot at something, from a gut feeling.

If there's an attempt at deception ... and I've been there ... you can beat it ... If you know the subject matter.

Ted, would you like me to post what you call diatribe on the board ... and let the people decide for themselves?
First you tell them that their answer doesn't count unless you see the card, now you tell them what to think.

Folks, believe in whatever you want to believe in ... Theories will be theories, and Facts will always be facts.

[tedzan]

Chi206

JimVB linked to my thread in which I elaborated on my research regarding the Kimball Factory (#649 Rochester, NY) that produced
the HINDU cigarettes in order explain my skepticism regarding the red Cobb/red HINDU card. I am not the sole skeptic of the legi-
timacy of this card. I can name at least 6 veteran T206 collectors (or Ty Cobb collectors) on this forum who agree with me. (I'll let
them chime in).

Needless to say, Cobb was the most famous ballplayer of the T206 era. If you count the four Cobbs' f/b permutations in the T206
set, you'll come up with at least 55 cards. So, why were any of the four Cobb's not printed with either Brown or Red HINDU backs ?
This remains a mystery and perhaps we will never know why. Anyhow, I'm convinced it has something to do with Factory #649.

The provenance of this red Cobb/red HINDU card can be traced back to the period (1999-2000) when a rash of RE-BACKED red HINDU
cards were in circulation. One of the most "infamous" one being a Matty (portrait) with a red HINDU back (an impossible f/b combo).
It was professionally graded by SGC at that time. Subsequently, SGC conceded that they were "duped" by this altered card. There
were several other T206's that were discovered re-backed back then. It's my opinion (and other's) that this Cobb was re-backed by
the same professional paper restorer that was quite busy back then re-backing T206's.

Gee, no wonder Red HINDU's are so tough to find....this pro was buying them up to do his "dirty work".


Hey guys, this is not the only BIG-BUCKS PSA graded fake in circulation, there is a Joe Doyle error card with a POLAR BEAR back out
there. I trust that most of you by now realize that the Joe Doyle error card exists only with a PIEDMONT 350 back.


Speaking about the Joe Doyle error card......brings me to respond to JOE "Potomac"........
I once knew a Joe P back in the 1980's - 1990's that was a great guy to talk BB cards for hours with. What has happened you JOE P ?

You have become a "broken record" with your endless diatribe. The only factor that I can attribute your grumpy-ness to is.....your INTELLECTUAL ENVY of others who post on this forum.

I will NOT debate with you, Joe. My favorite Uncle once gave me this good advice...."Do not ever engage in a discussion with a fool....
for, others will soon not be able to discern who the fool is between you."


T-Rex TED

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by tedzan

My favorite Uncle once gave me this good advice...."Do not ever engage in a discussion with a fool....
for, others will soon not be able to discern who the fool is between you."


T-Rex TED

My dad's version was:

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Exact same sentiment.

[FUBAR]

Originally Posted by Jim VB

"Never argue with an idiot. They'll drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Now that's classic!!!!!




I am sure someone like REA would allow you to inspect a 2 million dollar card if you are a qualified and sincere buyer. I never said they would let you take it for a couple weeks.

If you are willing to buy from a picture, i printed one on your printer. Take a look at the top sheet, it is a picture of Wonder Woman's plane... please send payment! Paypal gift preferred or add 3%!!