Cobb/Cobb card in Goodwin Auction

E93 · #1 04-25-2010, 02:25 PM

I was a little surprised, but not shocked by the price. I think the card has been undervalued for a long time. It is a premier card in the hobby and has been for a long time. It is from the premier pre-war set and depicts one who is arguably the best player of all-time. Its rarity is legendary (4x-5x rarer than the Wagner). It would not surprise me if there is a time in the near future (or recent past) when this card cannot be gotten for less than 100k in any condition.
JimB

E93 · #2 04-25-2010, 02:27 PM

P.S. I would be a lot more comfortable being the second person to pay over 100k for the card than the first. The next time it happens, be that REA or whenever, it establishes a new price point, if it has not already.
JimB

calvindog · #3 04-25-2010, 02:35 PM

I think the price was insane actually. Great card no doubt but when you consider that the Boston Garter Cobb went for 100 K, the Cobb/Cobb price from last night looks even stupider. And while cards often go up in value quickly (T206 Wanger for example), they don't go up 200% in one auction.

JP · #4 04-25-2010, 02:39 PM

Sounds like the finishing price of REA's Cobb will really dictate whether this card has hit a new level...or whether someone just had to have that particular card in Goodwin's.

wonkaticket · #5 04-25-2010, 02:56 PM

Hmmm I'm joning team Lichtman on Goodwin prices that make you go hmmm...

135k for that Cobb is very odd when a much nicer example is around the mid 40's right now...

Also PSA 3 American Beauty's in goodwin pulling $300+ when PSA 5 on ebay this week have gone cheaper heck even a 6 on ebay only went $130 or so more than Goodwins's PSA 3's?

Then you have the AUTH Sid Smith Brown Old Mill card which for 90% of the auction wasn't even listed as a "Brown" Old Mill card but just an AUTH Southern League card. That in it self is odd or sad Goodwin has a back set for sale in his auction in which Goodwin goes into detail about how tough Brown Old Mill's and Lenox cards are to find. Apparently they are very tough to find so tough in fact they may be for sale in your auction and you wouldn't even know.

Yet when the lot was corrected with less than a week to go it somehow pulled nice $$.

I can't say something is going on just looking at numbers and circumstances.

But I will say that if I you ever consign use Goodwin somehow he manages to get huge prices and get collectors to pay double and sometimes 5X what items are worth or have sold for how does he do it?

cfc1909 · #6 04-25-2010, 03:09 PM

how about the Piedmont factory 42s

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...value=piedmont 42&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...value=piedmont 42&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1

there was a SGC 60 Elberfeld Piedmont 42 in Huggins that went for $450 plus juice in their last auction

not sure what to make of these prices but I guess I better consign to Goodwin next auction.

teetwoohsix · #7 04-25-2010, 03:20 PM

Dang-that Rucker Piedmont 42 went for some bucks...........

wolfdogg · #8 04-27-2010, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

Dang-that Rucker Piedmont 42 went for some bucks...........

I was thinking same thing.......are they that rare?..........may have to get my Rucker Fact.42 slabbed and sell it.........

JP · #9 04-25-2010, 03:27 PM

Jim, then this should go for $10k!

http://cgi.ebay.com/T206-Frank-Smith...#ht_1140wt_948

sox1903wschamp · #10 04-25-2010, 03:33 PM

Wow, the prices on the backs of these cards amaze me. I think they are neat and there certaintly is a huge market for them

Mikehealer · #11 04-25-2010, 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cfc1909

how about the Piedmont factory 42s

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...value=piedmont 42&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1

http://www.goodwinandco.com/LotDetai...value=piedmont 42&page=0&sortby=0&displayby=2&lotsperpage=100&category=1

there was a SGC 60 Elberfeld Piedmont 42 in Huggins that went for $450 plus juice in their last auction

not sure what to make of these prices but I guess I better consign to Goodwin next auction.

I was watching those lots in Goodwin as well as the one in Huggins. It looks like the Huggins lot was a bargain.

Steve D · #12 04-25-2010, 05:42 PM

OK, in an attempt to get back to the Cobb/Cobb.....

One aspect of the Goodwin Cobb that seems to have been missed here is the fact that this one appears to be only the third example to not have a glossy surface (out of ~15 total examples known of the Cobb/Cobb back.

So.....~12 copies with a glossy surface - 3 copies without a glossy surface.

Could the price for the Goodwin example be due to the lack of the glossy surface?

And could we be seeing a differentiation price-wise between the two variations?

Just something to think about.

Edited to add that the Goodwin example has what I believe is the best surface condition of any example I can remember seeing. The blood-red background is immaculate! The only "problems" with the card are the four corners, and perhaps extremely slight registration issues with Cobb's image. I can't remember seeing any example of the Cobb/Cobb back that didn't have some creasing or general surface damage/wear. This by itself, could be another reason for a higher-than-normal bid. Put this together with the rarity of the non-glossy surface.....

Steve

onlychild · #13 04-26-2010, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Hmmm I'm joning team Lichtman on Goodwin prices that make you go hmmm...

135k for that Cobb is very odd when a much nicer example is around the mid 40's right now...

Also PSA 3 American Beauty's in goodwin pulling $300+ when PSA 5 on ebay this week have gone cheaper heck even a 6 on ebay only went $130 or so more than Goodwins's PSA 3's?

Then you have the AUTH Sid Smith Brown Old Mill card which for 90% of the auction wasn't even listed as a "Brown" Old Mill card but just an AUTH Southern League card. That in it self is odd or sad Goodwin has a back set for sale in his auction in which Goodwin goes into detail about how tough Brown Old Mill's and Lenox cards are to find. Apparently they are very tough to find so tough in fact they may be for sale in your auction and you wouldn't even know.

Yet when the lot was corrected with less than a week to go it somehow pulled nice $$.

I can't say something is going on just looking at numbers and circumstances.

But I will say that if I you ever consign use Goodwin somehow he manages to get huge prices and get collectors to pay double and sometimes 5X what items are worth or have sold for how does he do it?

Put me on the same team.

Also, I am certainly no Cobb expert and have especially limited knowledge on the Cobb/Cobb. I just find it a bit odd that this particular card is a new find and one of the super rare "no gloss" cards. The super-sized scan leaves me thinking why the borders are bleeding and the blood red background seems to lack any pixilation. Dunno...perhaps it's just me but it just doesn't look right. Even the Cobb named seems to be strangely aligned when compared to the other Cobb/Cobb's. Hell, I just don't know.

Rob D. · #14 04-25-2010, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wonkaticket

Hmmm I'm joning team Lichtman on Goodwin prices that make you go hmmm...

135k for that Cobb is very odd when a much nicer example is around the mid 40's right now...

Also PSA 3 American Beauty's in goodwin pulling $300+ when PSA 5 on ebay this week have gone cheaper heck even a 6 on ebay only went $130 or so more than Goodwins's PSA 3's?

Then you have the AUTH Sid Smith Brown Old Mill card which for 90% of the auction wasn't even listed as a "Brown" Old Mill card but just an AUTH Southern League card. That in it self is odd or sad Goodwin has a back set for sale in his auction in which Goodwin goes into detail about how tough Brown Old Mill's and Lenox cards are to find. Apparently they are very tough to find so tough in fact they may be for sale in your auction and you wouldn't even know.

Yet when the lot was corrected with less than a week to go it somehow pulled nice $$.

I can't say something is going on just looking at numbers and circumstances.

But I will say that if I you ever consign use Goodwin somehow he manages to get huge prices and get collectors to pay double and sometimes 5X what items are worth or have sold for how does he do it?

Careful, careful. You don't want to be labeled a conspiracy theorist.

vintagewhitesox · #15 04-25-2010, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E93

I was a little surprised, but not shocked by the price. I think the card has been undervalued for a long time. It is a premier card in the hobby and has been for a long time. It is from the premier pre-war set and depicts one who is arguably the best player of all-time. Its rarity is legendary (4x-5x rarer than the Wagner). It would not surprise me if there is a time in the near future (or recent past) when this card cannot be gotten for less than 100k in any condition.
JimB

Great point Jim, I think within the next year this card won't sell for below the 100k level. Great card, and definitely one of the top cards in the hobby.

Steve D · #16 04-25-2010, 10:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E93

I was a little surprised, but not shocked by the price. I think the card has been undervalued for a long time. It is a premier card in the hobby and has been for a long time. It is from the premier pre-war set and depicts one who is arguably the best player of all-time. Its rarity is legendary (4x-5x rarer than the Wagner). It would not surprise me if there is a time in the near future (or recent past) when this card cannot be gotten for less than 100k in any condition.
JimB

Call me a naysayer, but I just don't see it. Even if it's considered part of the T206 set (which has been debated), the Cobb/Cobb back is still not required for set completion, whereas the Wagner, Plank, Magie and Doyle (NY, Natl) are.

The Cobb/Cobb back is more of a "niche" card. Really, only die-hard Cobb and T206 back collectors are interested in it. Everyone else, while I'm sure wouldn't mind owning one, can pretty much live without it.

Steve

Vol · #17 04-26-2010, 12:22 AM

So, there is only fifteen known cards of the Cobb/Cobb?

E93 · #18 04-26-2010, 01:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VOLnVEGAS

So, there is only fifteen known cards of the Cobb/Cobb?

I believe there are 14 known and one unverified.
JimB

E93 · #19 04-26-2010, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve D

The Cobb/Cobb back is more of a "niche" card. Really, only die-hard Cobb and T206 back collectors are interested in it. Everyone else, while I'm sure wouldn't mind owning one, can pretty much live without it.

Steve

I respectfully disagree. I very much doubt that all 14 reside in the collections of T206 back collectors and/or Cobb collectors. I think that type of premier level card in the hobby is desirable to most collectors of pre-war cards that can afford it, regardless of whether or not they have a Drum or Uzit, or a huge run of Cobb cards.
JimB
P.S. I actually know where eight of them are and four of the eight are neither T206 back collectors, nor Cobb collectors.

barrysloate · #20 04-26-2010, 05:48 AM

No matter which side of the debate you are on regarding the Cobb with Cobb back, one thing that is undeniable is it is a great baseball card rarity. If it has in fact become the next six figure card, it is because of its incredible demand and very high profile. Maybe some owners are adding it to their T206 back sets, and maybe some don't even collect T206. Doesn't matter any more, it's now attained the status of one of the great vintage baseball cards, and always will be.

tedzan · #21 04-26-2010, 07:30 AM

having seen it at the March Philly Show, I was stunned at the price it sold for. Obviously, it's not one of the better examples
of this very rare/very high demand "T206" type card, so this sale has set a new precedent for future scenarios of this card. I
anticipate more Ty Cobb back cards will now come out of the woodwork....both REAL and professionally FAKED ones. It begs
this question.....will the Professional Grader's be able to tell the difference ? ?

TED Z

Peter_Spaeth · #22 04-26-2010, 08:13 AM

There have been aberrational auction prices before, so I think the jury is still out on the Cobb/Cobb.

chiprop · #23 04-26-2010, 08:50 AM

Ted - I got to handle the Goodwinn example at the Chicago show. Although the cobb/cobb in Goodwin may have been graded a 1.5, it presented in VG. It is one of the nicer examples I have seen.

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