Searching for a "Pirate" Cobb....show us these extremely rare "T215" cards ?

tedzan · #1 05-06-2010, 11:52 AM

Yes, there are 96 different subjects....and, one variation....Bobby Byrne (St. Louis) and 2nd card of Byrne
identifying him with Pittsburg (traded August 1909).

In my opinion....the change in teams for Byrne narrows down this set to a 1910 issue ?

If it was a 1912 issue, as catalogued, there would not have been any reason to issue two cards of Byrne.

Your thoughts, gentleman ? ?

TED Z

tedzan · #2 05-06-2010, 03:00 PM

Also, the Pirate set has both versions of Harry McIntyre....Brooklyn....and Brooklyn & Chicago cards. He was traded
on April 13, 1910, which further suggests that the Pirate cards were printed and issued sometime in 1910.

Furthermore, throughout the set, there are other T206 fronts from the 350-only series and from the 350/460 series,
implying that there might have been two printings. And therefore, two issues of these Pirate cards.

TED Z

teetwoohsix · #3 05-06-2010, 04:16 PM

I guess my question wasn't a valid one ?

Clayton

cfc1909 · #4 05-06-2010, 06:50 PM

Ted

that makes sense-96 subjects and a variation of one of the subjects makes a 97 card checklist.

Clayton-the reason for thinking there is a Cobb- is top tier HOFer and there is a t215 Red Cross so why not a t215 Pirate.

tedzan · #5 05-06-2010, 07:03 PM

Clayton

Ball, Crandall and Hartsel are confirmed cards in this Pirate set.

Conroy & Latham have not yet to be confirmed in the Pirate set....and, may not exist if the Pirate issue
is indeed a 96-card set.

The where-abouts of Mr. Cobb still remains a mystery ?

TED Z

tedzan · #6 05-06-2010, 07:27 PM

Jim

Regarding your...."that makes sense-96 subjects and a variation of one of the subjects makes a 97 card checklist."

That set in Legendary Auctions actually has 95 different subjects. The Bobby Byrne (Pittsburg) variation is the 96th
card in their listing.
Therefore, if we assume that the Pirate set consists of 96 different cards, then there remains a vacancy for a Cobb.

TED Z

teetwoohsix · #7 05-06-2010, 09:48 PM

Thanks JimR and TedZ. I'm not saying there isn't a Cobb/Pirate, just was thinking if there was a Cobb/Pirate T215, what about the other Type 1's that aren't confirmed with the Pirate back-would we also assume they are out there also? That's all.

I may be going off of an old out dated checklist (Mr.Lipset's Vol.3,original print),,,so I see in here that:

There is a Ball,Boston Amer. Pirate,,,,,,,,,,and a Ball,Cleveland Type 1

A Crandall,N.Y. Nat'l Pirate,,,,,,,,,,and a Crandall,New York Nat'l Type 1

And a Hartsel,Phila.Amer. Pirate,,,,,,,,,,and a Hartsel,Toledo Type 1

Anyhow,I don't want to come across as argumentative or anything,I'm just trying to understand,and I do appreciate the response and help.
It would be awesome to find such a card,the Cobb/Pirate T215.
I just wondered if that would mean the other unconfirmed Pirates should have a Type1 partner also,,and vice versa.

Sincerely,Clayton

tedzan · #8 05-07-2010, 02:39 PM

Have you added T215-1 and PIRATE cards of Danny Murphy (batting) to your wantlist ?

Do we even know if Murphy's PIRATE card does exist ? ?

TED Z

tedzan · #9 05-08-2010, 06:34 PM

Regarding your question...."If the Pirate back version has Brooklyn & Chicago in the caption, or just Chicago."

The Pirate card of Harry McIntyre is the "Brooklyn & Chicago Nat'l" version.

Not be confused with Matty McIntyre, who was printed with 2 cards in the Pirate set identifying him with......

Detroit

Chicago Amer.

TED Z

tedzan · #10 11-28-2012, 09:13 AM

The "PIRATE" cigarettes were produced by the W.D. & H.O. Willis Co. of Bristol, England, who was part of the British-American Tobacco Company.
American Lithograph printed these cards, and shipped them to the Bristol plant where the cards were inserted into packs containing 10 cigarettes.
From Bristol many packs were imported to the Far East. T206 type cards for American militarymen and Asian style pictured cards for Asian people
who smoked this brand.

.

Check out Jon Canfield's webpage on the T215 RED CROSS & "PIRATE" packs......

http://www.baseballandtobacco.com/t215.htm

TED Z

White Borders · #11 05-06-2010, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tedzan

Also, the Pirate set has both versions of Harry McIntyre....Brooklyn....and Brooklyn & Chicago cards. He was traded
on April 13, 1910, which further suggests that the Pirate cards were printed and issued sometime in 1910.

TED Z

Ted's comment reminded me of a T215-1 Red Cross McIntyre I recently picked up. Note that the image is the same as the T206 McIntyre Brooklyn & Chicago, but the caption is McIntyre, Chicago Nat'l.

I'd be interested to know:

a) If there is also a T215-1 Red Cross with the Brooklyn & Chicago caption (which would indicate a caption change during the print run OR two separate print runs).

b) If the Pirate back version has Brooklyn & Chicago in the caption, or just Chicago.

teetwoohsix · #12 05-06-2010, 11:30 PM

Well Craig,I'm glad you brought this up.I don't have the answer,but looking at the checklist I'm using (as stated above in my last post),it says this:

McIntyre, Chicago Amer.,,,,Pirate back T215

McIntyre, Bkln. and Chicago Nat'l ,,,,Pirate back T215

McIntyre,Chicago Nat'l ,,,,,Type 1 T215

Is there a T215 McIntyre with just a Brooklyn only designation?

Sincerely,Clayton

White Borders · #13 05-07-2010, 12:17 AM

Hey Clayton,

I suppose I should have checked my Lipset Vol 3 first before posting. Looking at it now, it agrees with what you posted in regard to McIntyre. But since the copyright date is 1986, there may have been new finds since.

Best Regards,
Craig

tedzan · #14 05-07-2010, 09:40 AM

Too much guesswork going on here. Here's the checklist of the Pirate set of 96 cards (plus the Byrne variation).
To date, no Cobb (Red portrait....or, Bat off shoulder version) has been confirmed.

My theory is that there was at least two press runs. One in 1910 and the 2nd in 1911. Check-out the following
trades........

Buck Herzog.......from Boston NL to New York NL on July 22, 1911
Miller Huggins.....from Cinci to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Matty McIntyre....from Detroit to Chicago AL on Jan 12, 1911
Rebel Oakes.......from Cinci to St Louis on Feb 3, 1910
Frank Smith........from Boston AL to Cinci on May 11, 1911

Ames (hands above head)
Baker
Ball
Bender
Bridwell (portrait-cap)
M. Brown (Chicago)
Byrne (St Louis)
Byrne (Pittsburg)
Camnitz
Chance (yellow portrait)
Chase
Collins (A's)
Crandall (portrait-cap)
Davis (A's)
Crawford (bat)
Cree
Devore
Donlin (bat)
Doolan (fielding)
Doolan (bat)
Dougherty (arm in air)
Doyle (portrait)
Doyle (bat)
Dubuc
Elberfeld (Wash.-fielding)
Evans
Evers (bat-yellow sky)
Ford
Fromme
Griffith (bat)
Groom
Herzog (New York, Nat'l)
Hartzell
Hoblitzell
Hofman
Howard
Huggins (portrait, St Louis Nat'l)
Huggins (hands/mouth)
Hummell
Jennings (one hand)
Jennings (both hands)
Johnson (pitching)
Kelley
Konetchy (glove low)
Krause
Lajoie (bat)
Lake
Leifield (bat)
Lord
Magee (bat)
Marquard (portrait)
Marquard (pitching)
Mathewson (dark cap)
McGinnity
McGraw (portrait-cap)
McGraw (glove)
Harry McIntyre (Brooklyn & Chicago Nat'l)
Matty McIntyre (Detroit)
Matty McIntyre (Chicago, Amer.)
McLean
Merkle (throwing)
Meyers
Miller
Mitchell (Cinci)
Mowery
Mullin (bat)
Murray
Murphy (bat)........................UNCERTAIN
Oakes (St Louis, Nat'l)
Oldring (bat)
O'Leary (hands/knees)
Paskert
Pelty (vertical)
Purtell
Quinn
Reulbach (no glove)
Rucker (bat)
Schaefer
Schulte (back view)
Frank Smith (Cinci)
Sheckard (glove)
Speaker
Stahl (glove)
Steinfeldt (bat)
Street
Summers
Sweeney (New York)
Tannehill (Chicago)
Thomas
Tinker (bat)
Wagner (bat on right)
Warhop
Wheat
Willetts
Wilson
Wiltse (portrait)
Wiltse (throwing)

Any inputs are appreciated ?

TED Z

teetwoohsix · #15 05-07-2010, 10:06 AM

Hi TedZ,

Thanks for the updated Pirate checklist,I do appreciate the time and effort you put into that-thank you.

Of course,as usual,I'm a little confused about something.In post #38,you said there is a McIntyre Brooklyn and a McIntyre Brooklyn & Chicago.Did you mean to say Chicago and Brooklyn & Chicago instead? Or is there a McIntyre Brooklyn?

Also,confusing me even more,in the checklist you just produced,you say there is a McIntyre Detroit? Maybe you are just messing with me

,,,,,but if not-please clarify?

Thanks,
Clayton

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