1915 W-Unc cards- Redux

[Brian Van Horn]

Todd,

The reasons I think they are strip cards is the variance of the sizes of the cards. Admittedly, the Lobert and the Rucker are the same top to bottom and side to side. Am I contradicting my previous post? No.

Also, the cut on the cards. The Lobert and the Rucker as well as the other cards I have posted have the same right border (of course, you have to stand up the Maranville), but the left border is gone from the Lobert. Finally, based on the samples from both sets listed by Lipset, and from the cards of Leon and myself, the borders and size vary.

Now, you can make the same argument for overall size of the E121s, but that is for another day....

[nolemmings]

Leon, I guess we're just talking past each other. The Lobert and Irwin might be the same size, but I can make an Exhibit the same size as a Topps card, and that doesn't make them the same. There is no side border on the Irwin and Lobert. The area comprised by the photo is larger on those cards--that is not cropping. If indeed they were hand-cut, then someone cut the borders off just so they would be the same size--not unlike how some pre-war cards were allegedly trimmed so that the collector's cards would all be uniform. If so, they came from different sets, IMHO.

Brian, you completely lost me when you say the cards you posted have the same right border.

[Leon]

I might be using the wrong terminology. I believe the composite team card, and the Irwin and Lobert cards, all are similar in size (maybe not exact but very close) and have the same photo size, with respect to the card. All 3 have similar borders. To me, that makes them all similar. ALL of the whole group of 25+ cards, in the auction, had very similar characteristics overall too. So, to me, until I see more than what was stated I am going with the same set theory. I could be wrong but the evidence is weighted towards them being the same set, imo. It's a good debate. Maybe I am just longing for more good debate on the board and less negativity? regards


edited to add- I think the borders were in fact cut off in order for them all to be the same size, but I think it was done at time of mfg.....again, another theory

[Brian Van Horn]

Todd,

Just to clarify, the right side has a black border on the edge of the picture on all the cards I posted. The cutting of the Lobert doesn't have a defined left border unlike the other four cards.

[nolemmings]

maybe Lew will chime in and clarify this more. Brian says he thinks these are strip cards because of the size variance and Leon says the fact they're all basically the same size makes them from the same set. Which is it--size variance or same size? Frankly, I've seen much wider size variance, both in degree and frequency, in the m101-4 and m101-5 cards than what I've been shown here, and those are clearly not strip cards.

As for the borders, are you saying that the similarity in the black frame surrounding the photo makes you think they belong together? Do you really notice any difference in the black frames surrounding m101-4s and those on E135 Collins McCarthy the following year? A basic black line of essentially the same thickness?

In my experience, there are very very few card issues that have the same card size but different sizes for the images within the borders of the card. That is clearly the case here, and that is why I believe they are not from the same set.

[JamesGallo]

I have a lot of these cards as well but I am out of town and can't post details right now.

However I did some comparisons as well and for the most part the cards all seemed to share on dimension, either l-t or t-b.

I have 2 ruckers and they match size wise and cut wise.

As a result I feel it is impossible that these are strip cards.

I will post the further details after I get home on Sunday.

James G

[Brian Van Horn]

Gentlemen,

I believe the cards are strip cards. Do I believe the Lobert maybe from another strip card set? If we are basing it on the size of the picture, yes. If we base it on bordering and typeset at the bottom of the card then this makes things a bit more murky. If I were to give an opinion, I would say the Lobert is from another set, but it could be possible the cards are from the same manufacturer. The cards could possibly have been produced at different times, but I would say within a year of each of other.

Todd, I am glad you brought up the M101-4/5 reference because this could be something along similar lines in respect to production runs.

[Jantz]

Great information Leon. Thanks for sharing. I really like the black & white images on this set.

I have a question about this set that maybe you or another board member can answer.

As with most pre-war sets, images were sometimes used on other sets.

Have you ever seen these same images used in another pre-war set?


Jantz

[Leon]

Originally Posted by nolemmings

maybe Lew will chime in and clarify this more. Brian says he thinks these are strip cards because of the size variance and Leon says the fact they're all basically the same size makes them from the same set. Which is it--size variance or same size? Frankly, I've seen much wider size variance, both in degree and frequency, in the m101-4 and m101-5 cards than what I've been shown here, and those are clearly not strip cards.

As for the borders, are you saying that the similarity in the black frame surrounding the photo makes you think they belong together? Do you really notice any difference in the black frames surrounding m101-4s and those on E135 Collins McCarthy the following year? A basic black line of essentially the same thickness?

In my experience, there are very very few card issues that have the same card size but different sizes for the images within the borders of the card. That is clearly the case here, and that is why I believe they are not from the same set.

Todd- your statement in the first paragraph about variance and size do not have to be mutually exclusive imo. I never said whether I thought they are strip cards or not. I don't know. I said some of them look to be handcut, and they do. I said I would go with Lew's thought on that part of it and he stated he doesn't think they are strip cards. Lew and I have a pretty good rapport and I did ask him, on the phone, if he had any other info at all. He said he described all that he knew (I believe). Regardless, there was no other information to be gleaned. I did try. Also, Lew reads the board, as we have emailed this morning about something board related, so has seen this and is probably amused at us. If he knew something completely different/more he would probably email and say so. He's always been a pretty good sport about helping me and it's always appreciated.

Your other statement about size of photo's within certain sets makes some sense but there are definitely some that are as you described...different photo size within a set.....here is one that comes to mind as an example, N48. best regards (I don't own these but used to)

[JamesGallo]

Another thing that came to me today is that a lot of these cards have diamond cuts.

I don't see diamond cuts to often on strips.

There are no lines so how would cards measure the same if they were strips.

Brian you said you think they are strips based on what factors?

James G