What's hurting the vintage card hobby?

[JP]

I think there are too many older collectors who hoard the rarest cards out there, and have no intention of sharing those cards with new collectors. And then when they are sold in major auctions upon their untimely deaths, only the "big buck" boys have a crack at them.

[smtjoy]

I believe that issues like auction house shilling, card restoration and fakes will be future issues that can really hurt the hobby but I think the biggest issue we face is how to attract new collectors into this great hobby.

[glchen]

First, scams. It's hard to buy a raw card these days without wondering if it's been altered, trimmed, or is a reprint. Second, kids these days have a lot of other entertainment options from video games to pokemon. So baseball card collecting has dropped steadily in popularity. Also, baseball as a sport is less popular than in the past. Steroids and the opinion that the teams w/ money can win have hurt baseball. And I think the most important reason is the disaster of the 80s, which has extended until now, which is oversupply of cards. There are simply too many modern sets and cards. People tend to first get hooked on the hobby as a kid by collecting the modern cards and the current stars. Then they start getting more and more interested in the history of the sport, and move into vintage. Now, they don't even get started in the hobby anymore, which hurts vintage. I think each year only needs 3 major sets, an affordable collectors edition, a premium set, and an authentics set. The first two can have an Updated/Traded/Rookies subset, but that's it. With only 3 sets, it can make getting into the hobby a lot simpler and affordable.

[Browncow75]

I think the difficulty of accurately pricing the myriad of the less popular card series without the use of the internet turns some collectors off, where, with modern cards, all you have to do is look at a Beckett. That, along with the huge difference in pricing of the grade levels of vintage slabbed cards (a PSA 1 common vs. a PSA 3 T206 common for example) makes some lean towards newer cards that have a more "standard" price in the market.

[jb217676]

I think the vintage hobby will be just fine. I converted to vintage a couple of years ago. My buddy Rob Miller (Robextend) is another young gun with a passion for vintage, and I'm sure most of the newer members to this forum are younger as well. Watching ebay trends lately, PSA 2 common T206 cards seem to be going for PSA 3 $ lately, compared to what I was noticing a year ago. I'm guessing newer vintage collectors are getting their feet wet in the vintage hobby with the 'monster'.

[mintacular]

I really don't think the vintage years are hurting too much, it's the newer stuff that will never IMO match the vintage yrs. Today's youth will NEVER become infatuated with 2.5 x 3.5" basic picture of a BASEBALL player on front, stats on back (for obvious internet reasons), the way earlier generations did.

[teetwoohsix]

Good question Tim.And everyone made some great points.JP,I agree,and that's sad but true.

One thing I think may hurt the vintage card hobby is the lack of pre-war cards in a lot of local card shops.They carry 50's and 60's cards,and to them,that's vintage.And true,that is vintage,but if you have a couple of showcases in your shop with a nice variety of pre-war cards I think it would catch peoples attention,and ignite their curiosity.

A couple of people who run card shops here in Las Vegas said there's no market here for pre-war,so they do not bother.My first thought was-you have to create the market-make it available!!

If people come in looking to buy a Rose rookie ,,and see a wonderful display of Old Judges,T206's,T205's,Zeenuts,Caramels,etc.,I think it would catch their attention,and get them interested.

Just my two pennies.

Regards,Clayton

[mintacular]

It might catch their attention but passerby customers aren't going to pay big bucks for players they've never heard of, despite the the age/rarity/eye appeal of said cards...

[nolemmings]

I don't believe the hobby is growing too slowly, and I don't want it to grow any faster. The economy in general has forced some people to forego or cut back on hobby expenditures across the board, I would guess--still alot of folks out of work and fighting to save their houses. Still, when I look at my saved ebay "you won" emails from over the past many years, I see prices have climbed steadily on most all prewar stuff, so demand is surely there. Auctions have increased in terms of both the number of auction houses and in frequency, and while there is some turnover of high ticket items, there's no shortage of continued "new" material, so supply hasn't disapeared either.

In short, the hobby is fine, IMO.

[teetwoohsix]

You have a good point Pat,but how else would a new collector of modern cards ever get exposed to pre-war,or become inclined to learn the history and who some of these players were unless it is made available to them?

They may not spend big bucks on them the first time they see them,but they may begin an interest in the cards that gets them to buy their first one,,and then,it's all over !!!

Clayton

[dstraate]

Originally Posted by mintacular

It might catch their attention but passerby customers aren't going to pay big bucks for players they've never heard of, despite the the age/rarity/eye appeal of said cards...

I really think that's the essence of the problem. Most names that pull up nostalgia for the good ol' days are guys like Ruth, Mantle, Mays, Aaron, DiMaggio, Etc.

Many people who have 5K of expendable income want to connect with those days, those names.

The much older cards require an appreciation of the history, how the hobby has evolved. (An esoteric niche not geared for mainstream appeal). Maybe it's for the best. If everybody wanted Old Judges, you can rest assured they'd be even harder to come by.

[wonkaticket]

Originally Posted by JP

I think there are too many older collectors who hoard the rarest cards out there, and have no intention of sharing those cards with new collectors. And then when they are sold in major auctions upon their untimely deaths, only the "big buck" boys have a crack at them.

JP what does that even mean? Collectors didn't want to sell when they were alive and if and when they die their collections may go up for sale to the highest bidder.

A good example would be the late Joe P or Larry Fritsch they had some great cards. Perhaps Joe or Larry’s cards will be made for public sale one day. Then I have the chance to purchase them as they were not for sale during their lifetime and I respect that.

That seems to be the normal course for this hobby or any great collections art etc.

So what would be the alternative and old time collector to sell me the card at half price to help me out or share the wealth?

Please don’t tell me we need to redistribute card wealth too (kidding light hearted political joke).

Not busting your chops just don’t follow your logic.

Cheers,

John

[JP]

John,

It was 100% a joke.

Any luck on the pic?

JP

[wonkaticket]

Ahhh got ya, I was really lost there got to roll me a smiley next time...LOL

JP haven't even started since I looked last night..I'll see what I can do.

[wonkaticket]

A big step in fixing this hobby is holding folks accountable and having the restraint to say no to the folks who are caught or implicated in bad stuff. Not just outing card doctor techniques and or posting conspiracy theories or complaints on a chat board.

We as collectors don't do enough holding folks responsible and continue to give the “bad guys” business and support. Guys faking cards, listing cards wrong and selling questionable items is just a portion of the bigger problem IMO. We as collectors need to say no more business for these guys if we feel that strong about them. Not just piss and moan then rush to bid in folks questionable auctions or use folks questionable information websites.

A big part of what is wrong with the hobby and or holding the hobby back is the collectors themselves all of us. We all buy into a system that ultimately in many ways allows us to be prayed upon if you will…IMO.

Cheers,

John