My thoughts on these stupid grading posts

[tedzan]

It is no surprise to many here....if I state how much I hate the Graded card phenomena. In my opinion....from the infamous
Alan Hager days (circa 1990), to the infamous PSA 8 Wagner, to the graded T206 fakes which were "Re-Fronted", to the pre-
sent situation....this Grading phenomena has adversely affected this BB card hobby. How many examples can offer of this ?
I will spare you how many.....as they are too numerous.

Unfortunately, there are many on this forum which have no way of comparing the present with the PPG (pre-professional gra-
ding) days of the 1970's, 1980's and early 1990's. Therefore, they are stuck in the "plastic age" and cannot be truly objective
about negative aspects of this current grading craze. Once you start professionally assigning "numbers" to pieces of cardboard,
that have no inherent $$$$ value, you've opened up a pandora's box of problems, corruption, etc.

But, I must be realistic.....we are all stuck with this Grading crap.....whether we like it or not. And, the only solution we have
was 1st suggested by Barry Sloate in another thread......

'What the numbers really do is keep the graders in business, and keep the resubmissions coming in at a brisk pace. The hobby
would be alive and well without them."

Kevin Cummings 2nd that suggestion in his excellent post (#15) earlier in this thread.


I could say a lot more on this subject, but that will only "tick-off" more Net54er's here. Resulting in no one ever responding to
my future threads here

So, I'll leave you with....to each his own.


TED Z

[timzcardz]

Originally Posted by tedzan

But, I must be realistic.....we are all stuck with this Grading crap.....whether we like it or not. And, the only solution we have
was 1st suggested by Barry Sloate in another thread......

TED Z

HELL NO!


If you love your cards, SET THEM FREE!


That's what I do.


And look at Jim Lemon. Just seeing that smile on his face is the only thanks that I need.

[Chris-Counts]

Great post, Kenny. I agree with most of what you say. I've never understood the whole graded card thing. Why should I pay extra for a trimmed card when I can just buy one raw for less money? I must admit, though, I get a guilty pleasure out of busting those darn things open. Curiously, the only card I've ever paid to get graded is a 1940 Play Ball color proof, and even though it's slabbed by SGC, I've had several folks here question its authenticity ...

[tedzan]

I'll spare you my usual lengthy diatribe here.....you, as others on this Net, take any of us anti-grading dudes' comments
too personal. It doesn't bother me that the majority of the folks here love graded cards....more power to them and you.

But, I am entitled to express my feelings regarding this subject (as others have similarly expressed here). And, they are
simply..all the cards I love and have collected from 1887 Old Judges to 1967 Topps were more affordable back in the PPG
era (see my above post #51). And, collecting these aesthetically appealing pieces of cardboard was more fun back in the
1970's, 1980's and early to mid 1990's.

I don't think I'm being totally unobjective when I say that since the Grading phenomena, these factors have significantly
diminished.

TED Z

[Rob D.]

Originally Posted by tedzan

I'll spare you my usual lengthy diatribe here.....you, as others on this Net, take any of us anti-grading dudes' comments
too personal. It doesn't bother me that the majority of the folks here love graded cards....more power to them and you.

But, I am entitled to express my feelings regarding this subject (as others have similarly expressed here). And, they are
simply..all the cards I love and have collected from 1887 Old Judges to 1967 Topps were more affordable back in the PPG
era (see my above post #51). And, collecting these aesthetically appealing pieces of cardboard was more fun back in the
1970's, 1980's and early to mid 1990's.

I don't think I'm being totally unobjective when I say that since the Grading phenomena, these factors have significantly
diminished.

TED Z

Ted,

I assure you, I do not take anti-grading comments personally. If third-party grading disappeared tomorrow, it wouldn't bother me a bit. Conversely, if it sticks around in its current form for 30 years, it won't bother me a bit. I've never bought a card that's in a slab solely because of how high the number is on the flip.

What I'm saying is when you and others who don't like third-party grading can't concede that the process hasn't done at least some good in the hobby, I think your overall argument loses merit.

You and others often choose to display your anti-grading sentiments as some kind of badge of honor, and that's your right. But you should at least be aware that collectors who prefer ungraded cards take more shots at those who don't share their views than the other way around. How does that help the hobby?

[Cat]

I generally skip over any of the grading threads (but I tend to skip over any thread about T206/T205s too). I think part of the problem is the grading threads get so many replies, and thus bumped to the top, that folks feel compelled to go back and find out what train-wreck they missed. I like my cards graded but I really don't care what the grade is. If I have to have a magnifying glass to identify that there is a wrinkle then I really don't care about that wrinkle. I think folks get way to technical with this stuff.

[Rob D.]

Ted,

It's easy to attempt to discredit someone or something by picking and choosing and listing only the negative. You're one of the more valued contributors to this board. You've also posted some comically ridiculous statements -- as have I and probably every other member of this board (except one). Were someone to list only your not-so-great posts in an attempt to discredit you on the whole, it would be pretty easy. Folks who are dead-set against professional grading are adept at listing all of the negatives and none of the positives.

A lot of us were active in the hobby before professional grading came on the scene. It wasn't all candy and nuts. Dealers repeatedly overgraded their cards and undergraded yours. There was fraud then -- specifically card doctoring and trimming -- just like there is now. Do I wish, like I'm sure you do, that there was a "less professional" feel to the hobby now like there was in the 1970s? Absolutely. But I also know that professional grading has done some good, and to try to turn a blind eye toward that fact doesn't help your cause.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by tedzan

The cards I love and have collected from 1887 Old Judges to 1967 Topps were more affordable back in the PPG
era.

Demand has gone up because 3PG + the Internet have made it easier and more comfortable for a lot of people to collect.

[tedzan]

I can have a discussion with Rob D on this subject.

But, I'll tell you this....your freakin attitude is what turns off a lot of us anti-graded guys. As, it is typical of a few here
that look down at collector's who talk about, or display ungraded cards on this forum (regardless of how nice or rare the
cards may be).

Here is a guy, folks, that when we once made a T206 trade deal, he demanded that I send him a check for the cost of
grading the cards I sent him.


Regarding this comment of yours........
"Demand has gone up because 3PG + the Internet have made it easier and more comfortable for a lot of people to collect."

You are so freakin wrong....it's laughable. This hobby, during the 1980's and into the 1990's, was at its zenith. Demand for
cards (of all stripes), relative to the activity in those years, has definitely diminished in the past 10 years. Ask anyone here
that recalls any of the Willow Grove Shows ?


TED Z

[barrysloate]

Ted- to the contrary, I think a fair number of people on this board do not like third party grading. Is it time for yet another poll? Maybe I'll rustle one up.

[Orioles1954]

I choose to have my cards graded for three reasons: 1.) to protect them from my children who are both toddlers; 2.) if I should unexpectedly pass away, it would be way easier for my wife and 3.) they appear more attractive to me.

James

[dstudeba]

Originally Posted by tedzan

But, I'll tell you this....your freakin attitude is what turns off a lot of us anti-graded guys. As, it is typical of a few
here that look down at collector's who talk about, or display ungraded cards on this forum (regardless of how nice
or rare those cards may be).
TED Z

This can just as easily be rewritten to :

But, I'll tell you this....your freakin attitude is what turns off a lot of us graded guys. As, it is typical of a few
here that look down at collector's who talk about, or display graded cards on this forum (regardless of how nice
or rare those cards may be).

Sorry that some of us intruded on your hobby and find that 3rd party grading and the internet assist us in our collecting efforts.

[Peter_Spaeth]

"I would be very satisfied with a service that marketed itself simply as:

(1) Being able to tell with 100% certainty that the card had not been altered in any way;"

I don't think that is realistic. While obvious alterations are easy to detect, sophisticated ones are not, and my own view is that the grading services don't have the time or the technology to unmask them all. They are not FBI crime labs, and there are people out there who are VERY good at what they do.

[T206Collector]

Originally Posted by tedzan

your freakin attitude is what turns off a lot of us anti-graded guys. As, it is typical of a few here
that look down at collector's who talk about, or display ungraded cards on this forum (regardless of how nice or rare the
cards may be).

I have no attitude, man. Calm it down.

Originally Posted by tedzan

Here is a guy, folks, that when we once made a T206 trade deal, he demanded that I send him a check for the cost of
grading the cards I sent him.

I've never dealt cards with you in my life or, in any event, demand that someone send me a check for the cost of grading cards.

Originally Posted by tedzan

Regarding this comment of yours........
"Demand has gone up because 3PG + the Internet have made it easier and more comfortable for a lot of people to collect."
You are so freakin wrong....it's laughable. This hobby, during the 1980's and into the 1990's, was at its zenith. Demand for
cards (of all stripes), relative to the activity in those years, has definitely diminished in the past 10 years. Ask anyone here
that recalls any of the Willow Grove Shows ?

Prices of cards have gone way up. The reason for that is because demand has gone way up. Simple math, man.

I am trying to be respectful because you obviously have a lot of knowledge to share, but you continue to turn off a lot of posters with your insensitive and rude remarks.

[FUBAR]

Originally Posted by T206Collector

but you continue to turn off a lot of posters with your insensitive and rude remarks.

This is just my opinion, but i have never found Ted to be rude nor insensitive.

[bcornell]

Originally Posted by Rob D.

A lot of us were active in the hobby before professional grading came on the scene. It wasn't all candy and nuts. Dealers repeatedly overgraded their cards and undergraded yours. There was fraud then -- specifically card doctoring and trimming -- just like there is now.

This gets a huge amen from me. There were no "good old days" in collecting, at least not by the late 1970's, when I started. Dealers were, by and large, not to be trusted. The hobby hasn't devolved due to grading and the Internet, it's gotten much, much better.


Bill

[calvindog]

Bill -- great avatar.