What is Your Opinion About Grading?

tedzan · #1 05-22-2010, 10:01 PM

Nicely done, however, your 2nd Q....."I think TPG is important but it definitely needs an overhaul".....is somewhat ambiguous.
Although, it has garnered the highest response (36%), I would not view this response as a totally affirmative support for TPG.
Due to the operative wording in this question...."definitely needs overhaul".

If all those that responded to this one were further queried, I can bet you that a certain percentage of them would revise their
vote in favor of your #3 question.

Therefore, it is incorrect (and unrepresentative) to combine the current results of Q's #1 and #2 to suggest that 53% favor TPG.

At best, this poll indicates that there is a 50-50 split of those who favor TPG versus those who have serious problems with TPG,
or downright dislike TPG.

TED Z

ChrisStufflestreet · #2 05-22-2010, 10:15 PM

I can't vote. I don't collect TPG cards and would likely free any cards I do pick up from their plastic tombs, but I don't really hate the concept. Which could mean that I've learned to live with them, but that's not an entirely accurate assessment either.

It is what it is.

barrysloate · #3 05-23-2010, 06:26 AM

Ted- I agree with you that there is some ambiguity regarding choice #2. I'm sure some who voted feel TPG only needs a few small tweaks, while others think it is a big mess- and everything in between. I didn't put a great amount of thought into the questions and only wanted to conduct the poll as a general survey. What is clear to me is a large number of collectors are not completely satisfied with it. I only hope the graders are reading this (I'm sure they are) and continue to work to put out a better product.

teetwoohsix · #4 05-23-2010, 09:07 AM

I voted for option # 1 because it is a grading service.Not only will they let you know if it's been altered,restored,trimmed,etc., they will give it a grade,according to their criteria,and slab it for you. So, I feel they have a system in place that works,for the most part. If you like raw cards, by all means, collect them that way!!! No one is forcing you to do otherwise.

Am I saying the system is perfect with no flaws? NO. As has been said before,it is people doing the grading,so of course it won't be perfect.

It seems like the biggest issues are consistency,crossovers,people not getting the grade they expected,pop reports (not being accurate),and what grading has done to the prices.I could've easily picked option #2,because they do need to improve (tweak) some things- but what else would be better than a ten point grading system? If you only used Authentic or Altered,you would still have dealers saying "this card is EX to Mint",,only to have the card arrive and be VG.There is no better safegaurd when buying over the internet than buying graded cards-and most of the stuff we collect has to be bought over the internet,or at card shows in other states.How many times do you want to get burned? If it were a perfect world,and there were no scam artists, maybe we wouldn't need anything more than a protective case,right?

There is no wrong answer on this poll,it's all about preferance.I don't always agree with a grade on the slab,or how one TPG's 4 is another's 3,etc.,but no one is forcing me to use them either.You should be buying the card and not the grade-just use the given grade as the example.And if all cards mean to you are a $$$ sign,well...................

Sincerely,Clayton

Leon · #5 05-23-2010, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teetwoohsix

I voted for option # 1 because it is a grading service.Not only will they let you know if it's been altered,restored,trimmed,etc., they will give it a grade,according to their criteria,and slab it for you. So, I feel they have a system in place that works,for the most part. If you like raw cards, by all means, collect them that way!!! No one is forcing you to do otherwise.

Am I saying the system is perfect with no flaws? NO. As has been said before,it is people doing the grading,so of course it won't be perfect.

It seems like the biggest issues are consistency,crossovers,people not getting the grade they expected,pop reports (not being accurate),and what grading has done to the prices.I could've easily picked option #2,because they do need to improve (tweak) some things- but what else would be better than a ten point grading system? If you only used Authentic or Altered,you would still have dealers saying "this card is EX to Mint",,only to have the card arrive and be VG.There is no better safegaurd when buying over the internet than buying graded cards-and most of the stuff we collect has to be bought over the internet,or at card shows in other states.How many times do you want to get burned? If it were a perfect world,and there were no scam artists, maybe we wouldn't need anything more than a protective case,right?

There is no wrong answer on this poll,it's all about preferance.I don't always agree with a grade on the slab,or how one TPG's 4 is another's 3,etc.,but no one is forcing me to use them either.You should be buying the card and not the grade-just use the given grade as the example.And if all cards mean to you are a $$$ sign,well...................

Sincerely,Clayton

Hey Clayton- those are some pretty good thoughts. I voted #2 in the poll as I would like there to be some common sense applied (isn't most of grading subjective anyway) to things like the photo quality on OJ's and other photo type cards and less importance on things that can't be seen, but get dinged for, on blank backed cards. Again, I know this is subjective and it's an easy argument to say "but there is an erased mark that can only be seen at an angle on that back so it can't be a 3!!"....well, I disagree and think there could be a way to address some of those types of issues. Overall, I DO think we are better off with TPG's than without them. Otherwise we would still be getting NRMT Larry Frisch (RIP) cards with pieces missing.....as the norm.

teetwoohsix · #6 05-23-2010, 10:06 AM

It seems like buying raw cards from people you don't know over the internet is a gamble-and living in Vegas,I've learned that the odds are always in favor of the house (meaning you will win sometimes,but mostly lose

).I do not want buying cards to be a "gamble".I want to know what I'm getting,and at worst,think it should've been a grade higher or lower...........not find out this card I thought was a 4 or a 5 coming back with an A because of a trim or added color or whatever.To each their own, I feel the good TPG's provide a great( but not perfect) service.

Thanks,Clayton

Edit to add: I agree with everything you said Leon, just wanted to add that.

barrysloate · #7 05-23-2010, 11:05 AM

As Leon just posted, the way Old Judges are handled by all the grading companies is a travesty, and it's bothered me for a long time that none of them are willing to listen to collectors. A couple of years ago Leon and I made a trade and I sent him an OJ portrait card. I forget which player, but I'm hoping he saved a scan and can post it. It's the poster boy for what's wrong with the system. This card had a gem photo, 10 out of 10 quality, with virtually square corners and no surface wear whatsoever. It was a visual gem. But it had a spot of paper loss and was graded Poor! And I've seen OJ's with photos that have faded to nothing more than a blur, but because they have square corners and no paper loss, are graded EX-MT! That suggests that the sole criteria for assessing those cards was the amount of paper loss. The photo quality wasn't even a small factor, it was a zero factor.

Collectors of Old Judges hate this grading scale and refuse to accept it. There is no question a card should lose points for paper loss, because a similar example without paper loss will always be more desirable. But the heavy handed way these are handled really show a lack of understanding the issue, and the way the set is collected. And even worse, there is no acknowledgment by the graders that this issue needs to be addressed.

Leon, I hope you saved a scan.

P.S.- I know Kevin Cummings already addressed this early in this thread, but I thought I would chime in too.

View Poll Results: What is your Opinion About Third Party Grading?
I think TPG is a huge benefit to the hobby and would leave it exactly as it is.	34	17.53%
I think TPG is important but it definitely needs an overhaul.	74	38.14%
TPG is a necessary evil which I have learned to accept.	56	28.87%
I hate TPG and think it has ruined the hobby.	30	15.46%
Voters: 194. You may not vote on this poll

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