I'm almost POSITIVE this card features Shoeless Joe...

brett · #1 05-25-2010, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Is the right arm of Jax in the newspaper pic not much higher up than the arm in the t202? Or am I not seeing it right. Also Lord's left foot appears to be in a different position relative to the bag.

I just think he's falling further back into his slide, and Lord's feet look exactly the same relative to the bag to me (maybe just taken by a photographer who was standing a little more to the right which could also explain why the shortstop was cut out of the frame).

Peter_Spaeth · #2 05-25-2010, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brett

I just think he's falling further back into his slide, and Lord's feet look exactly the same relative to the bag to me (maybe just taken by a photographer who was standing a little more to the right which could also explain why the shortstop was cut out of the frame).

I am no expert, but if it's literally only a split second would Jax's arm really have moved that much? Lord's foot looks to me like it's partially behind the bag in one pic and more firmly on it in the other. Maybe it's the angle.

botn · #3 05-25-2010, 07:02 PM

It is the angle of the photo and not sure it takes that long to raise your arm up to your face. In the image from the newspaper Joe is almost completely reclined. Look at Lord's head compared to the dark part of the fence in the background.

Peter_Spaeth · #4 05-25-2010, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by botn

It is the angle of the photo and not sure it takes that long to raise your arm up to your face. In the image from the newspaper Joe is almost completely reclined. Look at Lord's head compared to the dark part of the fence in the background.

I don't think it's just the angle, and my guess is in the instant it takes to have slid an extra couple of inches the arm position would not change THAT much. But I am just speculating. I think the absence of the wrap is tougher to explain, at least in terms of whether this is the same play with the same runner.

HercDriver · #5 05-25-2010, 07:09 PM

I don't buy the argument that the houses haven't moved with respect to the fence. I'm pretty sure if you took the picture from the same photographers' area of League Park in the dead of winter, the houses would still line up with the fence - they'd just have snow on them.

Cheers,
Geno

brett · #6 05-25-2010, 07:16 PM

After zooming in on the newspaper pic I'm even more convinced now that the shadow from Lord's body or leg is what is darkening Joe's right lower leg. You can even see another shadow on Joe's right knee from Lord's right arm.

bmarlowe1 · #7 05-25-2010, 07:42 PM

never mind for now

brett · #8 05-25-2010, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

I am no expert, but if it's literally only a split second would Jax's arm really have moved that much? Lord's foot looks to me like it's partially behind the bag in one pic and more firmly on it in the other. Maybe it's the angle.

At the speed he was moving it wouldn't take a tenth of a second for his arm to move up that far... FURTHERMORE, if somebody can zoom in on where Joe's leg crosses Lord's you can see where the white of the wrap shows just behind Lord's calf and the rest is either in a shadow or was touched up by the photographer so the readers could see it over the lighter background! I think we've got it now!!!

Peter_Spaeth · #9 05-25-2010, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brett

At the speed he was moving it wouldn't take a tenth of a second for his arm to move up that far... FURTHERMORE, if somebody can zoom in on where Joe's leg crosses Lord's you can see where the white of the wrap shows just behind Lord's calf and the rest is either in a shadow or was touched up by the photographer so the readers could see it over the lighter background! I think we've got it now!!!

Let's do some math. Say it takes him 4 seconds to go from second to third. That's 22 feet per second, 264 inches per second. So let's generously say the pics are 5 inches apart -- that is 1/50 of a second. Can the arm move that much?

brett · #10 05-25-2010, 07:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Let's do some math. Say it takes him 4 seconds to go from second to third. That's 22 feet per second, 264 inches per second. So let's generously say the pics are 5 inches apart -- that is 1/50 of a second. Can the arm move that much?

That's a silly notion. You have no idea how long it takes him to get between bases but I can assure you that as he was throwing himself into the slide that momentum was moving his body backwards extremely fast... Sort of like getting rear-ended in a car accident.

botn · #11 05-25-2010, 08:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Let's do some math. Say it takes him 4 seconds to go from second to third. That's 22 feet per second, 264 inches per second. So let's generously say the pics are 5 inches apart -- that is 1/50 of a second. Can the arm move that much?

That is just great. Peter is now practicing physics!

Dr. Spaeth you have failed to factor in the drag from sliding AND I doubt Joe ran 90 feet in 4 seconds.

Psst...I will give you a VG example of the T202 if you just stop picking apart my newspaper image!

MW1 · #12 05-26-2010, 03:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Let's do some math. Say it takes him 4 seconds to go from second to third. That's 22 feet per second, 264 inches per second. So let's generously say the pics are 5 inches apart -- that is 1/50 of a second. Can the arm move that much?

Peter,

Not an unreasonable estimate but Joe's speed isn't constant between bases if he is starting or stopping. His slide into third may have used up a disproportionate amount of the 4 seconds in your calculation.

I also find it significant that the player in the picture has a particular-sized hat (relative to his head size) and is wearing the hat quite low. Of the mug shots given in this thread of other Cleveland players, it very much appears that the player in the picture most closely resembles Joe Jackson.

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