Shoeless Joe Jax DIVERSION, why isn't he in any 1911-1917 major T or E-card sets ?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Didn't Hindu produce a number of Southern Leaguers? Does that rebut any notion of prejudice?

[Abravefan11]

Originally Posted by Peter_Spaeth

Didn't Hindu produce a number of Southern Leaguers? Does that rebut any notion of prejudice?

I'm surprised it's taken this long for someone to ask this question and Peter thank you for doing it.

In a set of cards containing just under 400 players, 48 are in their own subgroup known as "Southern Leaguers." Yet somehow this company had a southern bias. There is IMO absolutely no evidence there was bias and at this point it's speculation with no facts to back it up.

And to preempt any response on Cobb. He was one of the most prolific cards in the T206 set. He was a super print, had four front images, and his own back brand (arguably T206.) Not being printed at one factory does not automatically mean bias. I personally would need proof of bias and not just lack of any other explanation before I made that type of accusation.

[tedzan]

Regarding your......
" Boss Schmidt was from Coal Hill, Arkansas.
Ooops, sorry Ron, you already had him listed. There was a flood of talent from Arkansas in the major leagues but it
didn't begin until the 30's and 40's with Hall of Famers Travis Jackson, Arky Vaughn, Dizzy Dean, Bill Dickey, etc. "

Since, Arkansas was not considered the deep South back in the T206 era, I would of expected more BB players from
Arkansas in the T206 set. All this changed after WWI, where the early predjudices by some of the ball club owners
began to vanish. And, as you noted, this new "Southern wave" in BB began in the 1920's and 1930's.

By the way, don't forget my favorite Arkansan (besides Bill Dickey)....Johnny Sain.

TED Z

[tedzan]

OK, you naysayers, if there is no hint of prejudice against Cobb at the Rochester plant, then I want to know WHY
his T205 and T206 cards were not inserted in cigarette packs produced at this Factory #649 plant ?

When, as we know, the following regarding T206 cards of Cobb......

Green Portrait..........8 different backs
Bat on Shoulder.......8 different backs
Bat off Shoulder.....16 different backs
Red Portrait...........22 different backs......ALC's "signature picture"

Furthermore, every major T206 star in the 150 series is found with the Brown HINDU back, and most major stars
in the 460 series are found with Red HINDU backs.

Perhaps, you do not find this strange, but I find this to be very, very strange. So, all I am simply asking.....does
anyone here have an explanation why none of the four T206 Cobb's, or the T205 Cobb were printed with HINDU
backs ?


TED Z

[ctownboy]

Ted,

I am not sure about the timing but maybe it was because Cobb was going to have his own smoking tobacco (Ty Cobb with Ty Cobb back) and instead of cannibalizing sales they decided to NOT print anymore cards of him for the T206 set and just do the Cobb back cards. Then, when that for some reason failed, it was too late to do factory 649 cards.

David

[tedzan]

Your thought is interesting in that would only apply to the Red Portrait Cobb. The Ty Cobb back Cobb was printed
and issued in the Spring of 1910. American Litho. (ALC) used the Red portrait picture, since it was being printed at
that same time. But, between the Spring and Winter of 1910, ALC printed the Red portrait Cobb with many tobacco
advertising backs. However, for whatever reasons, ALC did not print this Cobb with the Red HINDU back. I conclude
that the Rochester plant (Factory #649) did not want Cobb on their advertising premiums.

The Bat Off Shoulder Cobb exists with the AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 back and the UZIT back; therefore, it will not be
found with a Red HINDU back (because this HINDU back is mutually exclusive with the AB 460 and UZIT backs).

The Green portrait and the Bat On Shoulder versions of Cobb were printed in 1909, and for whatever reasons, were
not printed with the Brown HINDU backs.


Thanks for your interesting post.

TED Z

[gabrinus]

As an Arkansas native I would strongly disagree that the Cotton and Delta areas of Arkansas would not have been considered Deep South in 1910. Little Rock as well. More than other "Southern" states. Coal Hill would definitely not have, however. Which might explain why Boss Schmdit beat up Ty Cobb for assaulting a black groundskeeper and his wife. The coal areas of Arkansas produced a lot of good boxers...as Cobb found out.