Should Bud Selig Overturn Jim Joyce's Call?

[barrysloate]

I vote for Selig to set a precedent by overturning Joyce's bad call and giving Galarraga his perfect game. Nobody will be hurt by it. Future situations can be evaluated as they come up.

[rdixon1208]

Originally Posted by barrysloate

I vote for Selig to set a precedent by overturning Joyce's bad call and giving Galarraga his perfect game. Nobody will be hurt by it. Future situations can be evaluated as they come up.

I Agree

[Jay Wolt]

I agree as well, its the right thing to do

[D. Bergin]

No, bad call but what makes it any different then if it was made in the 3rd inning and not the possible last batter of the game?

[toppcat]

Reverse the call!

[53Browns]

He needs to reverse it, the call was inarguably suckish. But I wouldnt bet on him reversing it. The hit king is still on the outside looking in.

[FrankWakefield]

No. The bad call stands. For the rest of our lives, and the lives of our progeny, we don't want a Commissioner tampering with the calls between the foul lines.


What should have happened is one of the other 3 umpires moves out in front of the plate, between the mound and the plate, and stares at the remaining 2, they'll get the idea and approach. They then look over at Joyce and wait for him to decide to approach. They can't help him unless he asks for help on the call, but they could have huddled there waiting for him to come over, and eventually he'd realize he should ask the crew chief for help on the call. I think we'll see the results of a meeting with umpires discussing this process.

Golly... if the Commissioner can 'fix' calls, I can think of a few that could do with 'fixing'. Where would it end? The problem here, I think, is that emotion and desire to reach a certain outcome (a perfect game) has pushed reason to one side. And that hit king walked by a sign every day as player, coach, and manager... the sign proscribed gambling. He should get in the hall any of the 363 days it's open, after he's bought an admission ticket.

[barrysloate]

Frank- I'm not suggesting that all bad calls should be subject to review. If an ump misses a call with two outs in the 5th inning of a 7-2 game, it should not be reversed. But there are exceptions to any rule, and can any call be more egregious than the one made last night? If ever there was a need to set a precedent, that was it.

[T206DK]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

No. The bad call stands. For the rest of our lives, and the lives of our progeny, we don't want a Commissioner tampering with the calls between the foul lines.


What should have happened is one of the other 3 umpires moves out in front of the plate, between the mound and the plate, and stares at the remaining 2, they'll get the idea and approach. They then look over at Joyce and wait for him to decide to approach. They can't help him unless he asks for help on the call, but they could have huddled there waiting for him to come over, and eventually he'd realize he should ask the crew chief for help on the call. I think we'll see the results of a meeting with umpires discussing this process.

Golly... if the Commissioner can 'fix' calls, I can think of a few that could do with 'fixing'. Where would it end? The problem here, I think, is that emotion and desire to reach a certain outcome (a perfect game) has pushed reason to one side. And that hit king walked by a sign every day as player, coach, and manager... the sign proscribed gambling. He should get in the hall any of the 363 days it's open, after he's bought an admission ticket.

I think Frank makes a good point. I was watching the game, and was waiting for any of the other umps to run over and at least say something to Joyce. Maybe it's time for instant replay to be used

[pgellis]

You want instant replay for routine judgement calls? Where would it end?

[pitchernut]

Don't like the call but that's just the way baseball is played and imo the less replay used in all sports the better.

[wolfdogg]

I voted NO......we don't need instant replay in baseball. Although it was a terrible call it was a judgement call and it happened fast. Jim Joyce made the call, he didn't hesitate. He felt he was safe and he stuck with it. If I was a MLB umpire I wouldn't want replays. I would feel like I really wasn't needed out there. Just look at a replay and make every call. Yes, I'm a purist, Love this game and I'm old fashion. This game has been around for 150 years....lets not change it.

Although I stated that I would have been ejected had it been me, my hats off to Galarraga, he didn't say a word to Joyce after the call, just a "I can't believe you called him safe" look. I was actually hoping Cabrera would get face to face with him at first while they were "jawing" at each other. Thought he was....why not? Last inning....one out to go.....cause a scene

And, I also tip my hat to Jim Joyce for going to clubhouse after he reviewed the call and realizing he missed it to apologize to Galarraga for the missed call. Took a man to do that and to admit he cost him his perfect game.........

Life goes on....its a game...

[B O'Brien]

I hate to say it, but I voted YES.

I consider myself to be a purist of the game, and would hate to see intsant reply go into effect, but I think this is one of the very small number of times in history that this would be a good decision. It would be fun to do some history digging and see if any of the countless appeals to the main office back in the day, ever overturned an on field decision.

I would also like to say what a good job the kid did taking it in stride. It would be hard not to blow a gasket, knowing that is your one chance at the history books.

Bob

[kkkkandp]

As has already been pointed out, there is precedent for doing just that - the George Brett Pine Tar incident.

When almost everyone else in the world thinks the call should be overturned, not overturning it will just make those people feel it is one more example of the commissioner sitting on his hands rather than taking an action, which he has the power to do, that could right a wrong.

Conversely, if he does reverse the call and award the perfect game, I think it will have a very beneficial effect. It's a "feel good" move that should not be ignored.

[pgellis]

Originally Posted by kkkkandp

As has already been pointed out, there is precedent for doing just that - the George Brett Pine Tar incident.

When almost everyone else in the world thinks the call should be overturned, not overturning it will just make those people feel it is one more example of the commissioner sitting on his hands rather than taking an action, which he has the power to do, that could right a wrong.

Conversely, if he does reverse the call and award the perfect game, I think it will have a very beneficial effect. It's a "feel good" move that should not be ignored.

First of all, Pine Tar incident was overturned because it was a "rules interpretation" and those are the only rulings that can be overturned, not a judgement call on a player out or safe at a base (that happens about 35 times per game).

Second, the commissioner is not sitting on his hands, he doesn't have the power to overturn a judgement call on the field.

[celoknob]

Unfortunately this will probably lead to instant replay. Combined with all the loud music, stupid scoreboard games etc., I may just stop going to the games. A ballgame used to be a place to get away from distractions and excessive technology, now it is just another source.

I'd trade a perfectly umpired game for the simple game of baseball as it was meant to be played with all its errors (umpires and otherwise).

[ctownboy]

I consider myself am a purist (an NL fan) but I am also all about getting calls right.

If this were the NBA, the NFL or the NHL, instant replay would have been used and the call would have been made right.

Bud Selig has been against instant replay but he CAN NOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. He can not be against instant replay while also not having to be held responsible for standing up and changing an incorrect call.

David

[bbcard1]

Let me throw this into the mix...how about he add the effort to the official list of perfect games in the same way Ernie Shore's perfect game is...for the two people on this board who do not know, Ruth started the game, walked the first batter and was ejected for arguing with the ump. Shore entered the game, the batter was caught stealing and he retired the next 26. He is generally credited with a perfect game.

For what it is worth, he will probably have more enduring and marketable fame from this than if he had pitched the perfect game. He and Joyce will be linked like Branca/Thompson or Buckner/Wilson...probably can make a few dollars off dual autograph appearances for years to come.

[Jim VB]

Originally Posted by bbcard1

Let me throw this into the mix...how about he add the effort to the official list of perfect games in the same way Ernie Shore's perfect game is...for the two people on this board who do not know, Ruth started the game, walked the first batter and was ejected for arguing with the ump. Shore entered the game, the batter was caught stealing and he retired the next 26. He is generally credited with a perfect game.

Shore is NOT credited with a perfect game by MLB.

[FUBAR]

after hearing Joyce's apology, I am sure he would want it overturned....

but in hindsight, he was awarded an awfully nice Corvette convertible as a consolation prize!

[martyogelvie]

i think too much time has passed and now the bad call must stand.

no reversal.

if you want to reverse calls, try replay, otherwise play with the rules that are in place.

[Anthony S.]

Do you think Bud ever loses track of all committees he's formed to study MLB issues?

[whycough]

Mrs. Claypool: Mr. Driftwood, three months ago you promised to put me into society. In all that time, you've done nothing but draw a very hansome salary.
Driftwood: You think that's nothing, huh? How many men are drawing a handsome salary nowadays. Why you can count them on the fingers of one hand, my good woman.

[barrysloate]

Night at the Opera.

[timzcardz]

Only if he reviews all of the other calls in the game including called strikes. Maybe the perfect game shouldn't even have lasted through 26 outs, or a called strike that wasn't gave the pitcher a favorable count to work with.


Would this even be a topic for discussion if it had occurred in the 2nd or 3rd inning?

[FrankWakefield]

It is a topic because of a desired outcome.


And that, to me, should not be a factor in the decision. "Because if I reverse and correct this call the pitcher can have a perfect game, that's why I'm changing it." No, can't accept that that is right.

Who knows what might happen if ARod hits what might have been an 800th home run, but he stepped out of the batter's box and is ruled out... video shows he was out, but the lime had long ago been rubbed away so ARod couldn't see that he was out... and after all it would be his 800th home run... Or maybe Jeter is about to hit in that 57th consecutive game... No, Barry, we shouldn't look at a desired outcome and let that affect our decision-making.

[pgellis]

You don't reverse it. That opens up a can of worms that I don't think anyone wants to open with the "human element" of baseball.

Also, if the commissioner were to step in and rule that an out because of a perfect game, how tarnished is that effort now? The best part of a perfect game, no-hitter, walk off HR is the immediate celebration of the team, player etc. Now, the next day you are going to rule it an out? Where's the celebration? There isn't one.......kind of a lost moment that you can never get back.

[egbeachley]

Originally Posted by FrankWakefield

It is a topic because of a desired outcome.

To me this is very interesting. If he was called out on the last play and replay showed he should be safe, there would not even be a discussion of overturing the perfect game.

[CardTarget]

Originally Posted by D. Bergin

No, bad call but what makes it any different then if it was made in the 3rd inning and not the possible last batter of the game?

The difference is that it's THE LAST BATTER OF THE GAME. Meaning that nothing can change if that call is corrected. In the third inning every play has an effect on every other play for the rest of the game.

The better question is, if he proceeds to lose the game after this call is made with another hit and then a bomb to tie it does Bud change anything? Of course not.

I think it's a huge shame, and blame lies with Joyce and the crew chief Darryl Cousins for not getting the call right at the time. Bud can't and shouldn't do anything.

[Rob D.]

Absolutely not.

[PolarBear]

When the commissioner voids Bonds/McGwire/Sosa etc. HR records, then I'll listen to his reasoning for reversing this call.

[barrysloate]

Leon- the poll is fine as worded.

I too was a little surprised that the umps didn't huddle after the play and have a conference. Is it possible the home plate umpire saw the play well enough to reverse it? Probably not, but that was the moment to discuss it.

And Adam is probably right- seems like we'll just have another perfect game in a week or so.

[Ladder7]

No.

But, Selig's appointment should be reversed.

[Leon]

IF it was going to be overturned it should/would have needed to be done before the next pitch. That is my thought on it. Then I could have been ok with it...but not afterwards.

Barry- I didn't know what your verbiage would have been on the poll so just made it easy and obvious.